Tlm At Steubenville

[brendan1104]

[url="http://wdtprs.com/blog/2007/10/franciscan-university-at-steubenville-and-summorum-pontificum"]http://wdtprs.com/blog/2007/10/franciscan-...orum-pontificum[/url]

From Fr. Zuhlsdorf.

God help us.

[Laudate_Dominum]

Yep, that's consistent with my experience at FUS. I've heard a few of the old TLM bashing homilies. One of the big dawgs up there got red in the face once when a student asked about the TLM that's how mad he was. Weird stuff.

[Lil Red]

i think we need to be careful not to spread rumors or to gossip about a situation we may know nothing about. pray for all involved.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1408001' date='Oct 23 2007, 04:21 PM']i think we need to be careful not to spread rumors or to gossip about a situation we may know nothing about. pray for all involved. [/quote]
I can testify to most of the stuff in Fr. Z's blog post from personal experience. I do think the university could go either way though since it is a mixed bag. If you want rumours I've heard some recently that are far worse than anything in that blog post (regarding opposition to the TLM from FUS big whigs). Ok, that wouldn't be very nice, but I do think it is important for people to know that if they are thinking about going to FUS and happen to have traditional sensibilities they may be bumming rides to Mass off campus. If I had known the real scoop about the school before I enrolled I might have considered Christendom or something.

[Deus te Amat]

I had my mom almost convinced to let me go to steubie... my application is all done and everything... But she read this today and is now having major second thoughts. *sigh*

i dont know what exactly to think...

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' post='1408015' date='Oct 23 2007, 03:58 PM']I can testify to most of the stuff in Fr. Z's blog post from personal experience. I do think the university could go either way though since it is a mixed bag. If you want rumours I've heard some recently that are far worse than anything in that blog post (regarding opposition to the TLM from FUS big whigs). Ok, that wouldn't be very nice, but I do think it is important for people to know that if they are thinking about going to FUS and happen to have traditional sensibilities they may be bumming rides to Mass off campus. If I had known the real scoop about the school before I enrolled I might have considered Christendom or something.[/quote]
okay, but what about the other 95% of phatmassers who have no direct knowledge of this situation? i still don't think that gossiping about what may or may not be happening at FUS is prudent.

[photosynthesis]

I'm pretty sure that Summorum Pontificum doesn't apply to colleges & universities run by religious orders.

That being said, one of my best friends is a student in charge of the movement to bring the TLM to Franciscan. She and I were both very hopeful about the situation but now there are a lot of hurt feelings and broken hearts across the campus. I could see why a president of a college like Steubenville would not allow different kinds of Masses to be offered on campus because a lot of people buy into this false idea that the old Mass is a threat to Christian unity. It's sad that students there won't really be able to experience all the Church has to offer. Souls will suffer because of this.

Edited October 23, 2007 by photosynthesis

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Deus_te_Amat' post='1408017' date='Oct 23 2007, 05:02 PM']I had my mom almost convinced to let me go to steubie... my application is all done and everything... But she read this today and is now having major second thoughts. *sigh*

i dont know what exactly to think...[/quote]
The facebook group for bringing the [i]forma extraordinaria[/i] to FUS currently has 239 members which may be reason for hope. I would say just visit the place because you can't really judge from a few comments such as this. I've known people who visited campus and loved it and others who visited and hated it. There are pros and cons as with most schools no doubt.

[friendofJPII]

This is ridiculous. I went to FUS, and I felt the staff did the best they could to incorporate everyone's liturgical preferences. The 6AM mass was quick, quiet, with no singing, the 12 noon was more traditional Novos Ordo w/organ, and the 6:30 was Charismatic. The people who really didn't like the FUS liturgy due to the style of the chapel, music, etc, went to St. Peter's. They were even having the Latin mass (I'm not sure if was Latin Novos Ordo or Latin Tridentine) once a month last time I recall. Really, these liturgical wars have to stop, it's rather petty. The mass is the mass, the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit, grace is grace, and as long as the mass is licit, is Christ-centered, the true gospel is being proclaimed (a rarity these days, considering what is going on in parishes these days) we are blessed. In the time ppl take arguing Charismatic vs. Traditional they could be performing works of mercy. If you don't like the liturgical style, but the mass is otherwise licit and Christ-centered...offer it up! You are still witnessing the greatest miracle on earth!

I believe FUS had other problems, I thought the school was very cliquey ...but that is another topic.

Edited October 23, 2007 by friendofJPII

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' post='1408015' date='Oct 23 2007, 04:58 PM']I can testify to most of the stuff in Fr. Z's blog post from personal experience. I do think the university could go either way though since it is a mixed bag. If you want rumours I've heard some recently that are far worse than anything in that blog post (regarding opposition to the TLM from FUS big whigs). Ok, that wouldn't be very nice, but I do think it is important for people to know that if they are thinking about going to FUS and happen to have traditional sensibilities they may be bumming rides to Mass off campus. If I had known the real scoop about the school before I enrolled I might have considered Christendom or something.[/quote]

Does Christendom have an Extraordinary Form?


[quote name='Deus_te_Amat' post='1408017' date='Oct 23 2007, 05:02 PM']I had my mom almost convinced to let me go to steubie... my application is all done and everything... But she read this today and is now having major second thoughts. *sigh*

i dont know what exactly to think...[/quote]

I didn't know you liked the EF

[hyperdulia again]

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The Old Mass is the liturgical heritage of the Roman Rite of the Catholic Church. How long is it going to be treated by otherwise orthodox Catholics as if it were some kind of contagion?

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='friendofJPII' post='1408032' date='Oct 23 2007, 05:19 PM']This is ridiculous.[/quote]
For many people it is extremely important.

[quote name='friendofJPII' post='1408032' date='Oct 23 2007, 05:19 PM']I went to FUS, and I felt the staff did the best they could to incorporate everyone's liturgical preferences.[/quote]
Apparently everything but the [i]forma extraordinaria[/i] is acceptable (banner Mass, "international" Mass, Byzantine Liturgy, household life Mass, et cetera). A couple years ago a petition was sent to the Bishop from members of the diocese (it had nothing to do with FUS other than the fact that many professors had signed the petition), I am told that the top brass of FUS hounded the bishop to reject it (which he was inclined to do anyway).That's dedication to a cause!

[quote name='friendofJPII' post='1408032' date='Oct 23 2007, 05:19 PM']The 6AM mass was quick, quiet, with no singing, the 12 noon was more traditional Novos Ordo w/organ, and the 6:30 was Charismatic.[/quote]
The nooner was typically a Haugen-Haas Mass with a keyboardist and guitar players with perhaps one or two "Steubenville songs". Depending on the priest it could have plenty of characteristically "charismatic" liturgical abuses. As the school grows they seem to be doing more and more entertainment Masses in the gymnasium.

[quote name='friendofJPII' post='1408032' date='Oct 23 2007, 05:19 PM']The people who really didn't like the FUS liturgy due to the style of the chapel, music, etc, went to St. Peter's.[/quote]
Yes, and many people who lack transportation or an accommodating schedule silently endure the FUS rite of the Mass.

[quote name='friendofJPII' post='1408032' date='Oct 23 2007, 05:19 PM']They were even having the Latin mass (I'm not sure if was Latin Novos Ordo or Latin Tridentine) once a month last time I recall.[/quote]
They had a Latin novus ordo once a month which was originally an accommodation to certain resolute faculty members as I understand it. I must note that it was at these Latin novus ordos that I heard most of the anti-latin, anti-"pre-vatican II" homilies. In many instances the homily would present the Mass as a nostalgia trip and then go on to explain how we've come so far since Vatical II, etc. In essence these Masses were often celebrated in a spirit of mockery. Naturally it depends on which priest was saying the Mass (there were very apparently few who would do it or were comfortable with the Latin since in all two distinct priests said this Mass out of the many times I attended it).

[quote name='friendofJPII' post='1408032' date='Oct 23 2007, 05:19 PM']Really, these liturgical wars have to stop, it's rather petty.[/quote]
Tell that to certain folks at FUS. Is it only petty or whatever if it is people who love the TLM? The point is that the powers that be at this place are apparently wrapped up in a petty agenda to marginalize and ignore certain people as well as the expressed desires of the Holy Father. I personally find this to be problematic and disturbing -- "ridiculous" one might say.

[quote name='friendofJPII' post='1408032' date='Oct 23 2007, 05:19 PM']The mass is the mass, the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit, grace is grace, and as long as the mass is licit, is Christ-centered, the true gospel is being proclaimed (a rarity these days, considering what is going on in parishes these days) we are blessed.[/quote]
They have improved on certain particulars in recent years, but there were plenty of illicit practices that were daily occurrences when I was at FUS. Even if this were not true I think that the staggering dignity and holiness of the Mass demands more than a minimalistic "what's licit" attitude. There are many more questions surrounding the subject of right worship which are hardly unimportant.

[quote name='friendofJPII' post='1408032' date='Oct 23 2007, 05:19 PM']In the time ppl take arguing Charismatic vs. Traditional they could be performing works of mercy. If you don't like the liturgical style, but the mass is otherwise licit and Christ-centered...offer it up! You are still witnessing the greatest miracle on earth![/quote]
Now that is ridiculous. The first sentence seems to amount to saying that we should not take the Mass seriously because it is a waste of time (1. It isn't worth arguing about; 2. We could be doing other things that are of real worth). The problem with the logic of this statement is that it only follows if the Mass is in fact unimportant or not worth taking seriously or being passionate about. The fact that works of mercy are a good thing does not in any way address the question of the nature of the Liturgy and its importance. I will again remind us of a teaching of Vatican II that the Mass is the source and summit or the Church's life. Without the Mass as the wellspring of our Christian life our works of mercy would be virtually worthless. The question of right worship cannot be separated from that of right belief and right practice without destroying the nature of the Church and of the order of grace.
Part of the notable insight of the Second Vatican Council was to see the absolutely essential importance of the liturgy to the vitality of the Church and the living out of her mission.
The Pope has clearly indicated that the greater use of the missal of 1962 is extremely important for a fuller understanding and implementation of the Council and for the life of the Church in general. The fact that this papal guidance is apparently avoided and/or attacked, either implicitly or explicitly, is definitely something that I am inclined to take seriously.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='hyperdulia again' post='1408053' date='Oct 23 2007, 05:42 PM']10
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The Old Mass is the liturgical heritage of the Roman Rite of the Catholic Church. How long is it going to be treated by otherwise orthodox Catholics as if it were some kind of contagion?[/quote]
Amen!! For years I have been treated as though my love for Catholicism is somehow indecent because that love extends beyond the 1960's. It is as though we are supposed to be ashamed of Catholicism as it was before 1968 or so. Quite frankly I find a great deal to be rightly ashamed of since that time.

[friendofJPII]

Why don't they just change the 8 AM mass or the 4 PM mass (what used to be called the "sinner's mass" b/c it was later in the day) to the Tridentine? Or they could possibly offer it on Sat night? I have no problem with them offering the Tridentine mass as long as [i]a) one type of mass is not held in superiority to another and [/i][i]b) reverent Chrarasmatic styles of worship are still respected.[/i]

There is no one right way to pray....

[hyperdulia again]

"a) one type of mass is not held in superiority to another "

I know nothing about FUS. I do know this happens all over the Catholic world with regard to the Old Roman Rite.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Deus_te_Amat' post='1408017' date='Oct 23 2007, 06:02 PM']I had my mom almost convinced to let me go to steubie... my application is all done and everything... But she read this today and is now having major second thoughts. *sigh*

i dont know what exactly to think...[/quote]
Trust me, of all the things that could be a bit off about any Catholic school, this is one of the little things.

FUS is an excellent school. It has it's oddities like any others and sometimes the way it's run is a bit frustrating, but it is nonetheless an excellent school.

[beata_virgo_maria]

I don't know, this is a little bit gossip-ish. I mean maybe part of the reason they rejected it was that it takes more planning than just a petition to have a TML on campus... I don't know either way, but I'm just happy to be blessed to be going to a faithful school (I go to FUS), it has sure beats going to state school. The state school I would have probably gone to, you would have to drive probably 3+ hours for a TML.

[friendofJPII]

I also don't understand why there is such dismay over using Haugen-Hass songs. Yes, a few of their songs have a liberal slant...but most come straight from the Scripture.."i.e. On Eagles Wings...." Be Not Afraid....?

[friendofJPII]

I also don't understand why there is such dismay over using Haugen-Hass songs. Yes, a few of their songs have a liberal slant...but most come straight from the Scripture.."i.e. On Eagles Wings...." Be Not Afraid....?

[Deus te Amat]

Its not about the mass... its about the fact that Fr. Z told over 150 students that they had to get Mental Help because they wanted the TLM