Extraordinary Ministers

[rkwright]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1432048' date='Dec 9 2007, 06:11 PM']The goal is to increase reverence by eliminating Extraordinary Ministers.[/quote]

You need to prove this would actually happen. If you go to a NO mass (which I doubt you ever do...) and take note of the people who receive communion from the Priest and those who receive from Extraordinary Ministers, tell me if the ones receiving from the priest have any more reverence towards the sacrament. Good luck with that...

[st-annes]

Would it help if there were more deacons? I think they can't consecrate the Eucharist, but isn't it within their purvey to help administer it?

[brendan1104]

It would certainly help in people understanding that the laity do not have the right or regular privilege in handling and distributing the Eucharist!

[quote name='rkwright' post='1432195' date='Dec 9 2007, 08:18 PM']You need to prove this would actually happen. If you go to a NO mass (which I doubt you ever do...) and take note of the people who receive communion from the Priest and those who receive from Extraordinary Ministers, tell me if the ones receiving from the priest have any more reverence towards the sacrament. Good luck with that...[/quote]

[Laudate_Dominum]

[url="http://www.elfyourself.com/?id=1271842229"]My official response to this thread.[/url]

[Lil Red]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1431903' date='Dec 9 2007, 12:52 PM']In instances like this Holy Communion should be distributed only under the species of bread, both parish priests should make it a point to be there to help distribute Holy Communion and [b]more permanent deacons should be ordained[/b]. Another way to make the distribution of Communion faster would be to have the communicants kneel at an altar rail so that the priest can go fairly quickly (though not rushed) to each communicant rather than have the communicant walk up at his own pace to the priest.[/quote]
on the bolded part - my last bishop sadly got rid of the permanent diaconate program in my diocese

on everything else, they are interesting points.

[quote name='st-annes' post='1432261' date='Dec 9 2007, 09:54 PM']Would it help if there were more deacons? I think they can't consecrate the Eucharist, but isn't it within their purvey to help administer it? [/quote]
i think more permanent deacons should be ordained, yes!

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' post='1432277' date='Dec 9 2007, 10:03 PM'][url="http://www.elfyourself.com/?id=1271842229"]My official response to this thread.[/url][/quote]

[Maggyie]

What we need are more permanent deacons but also [b]more priests. [/b] Ordain enough clergy and the justifications people use for EMHCs will be gone with the wind

[Lil Red]

and my answers were:

[i]Do you think, in general, that it is liturgically abusive for Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion to be used to assist in the distribution the Blessed Sacrament during nearly every Mass at an average parish church?[/i]

[b]yes[/b], especially at some daily Masses, where there are not as many communicants

[i]Do you think that the Pope, Congregation of Divine Worship, or national conferences of bishops should make an official declaration forbidding the use of Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion on a frequent basis?[/i]

[b]no[/b], like has been said, plenty on this has already come out from the Vatican/Holy Fathers, etc.

[i]Do you think if Extraordinary Minsiters were very infrequently or almost never used, there would be an increase of belief in the Real Presence and reverence towards the Blessed Sacrament?[/i]

[b]no[/b], the problem is catechesis, many are simply not taught that the 'wafer' is truly the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1432298' date='Dec 9 2007, 11:08 PM']What we need are more permanent deacons but also [b]more priests. [/b] Ordain enough clergy and the justifications people use for EMHCs will be gone with the wind [/quote]
that too!

[rkwright]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1432315' date='Dec 10 2007, 12:46 AM']and my answers were:

[i]Do you think, in general, that it is liturgically abusive for Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion to be used to assist in the distribution the Blessed Sacrament during nearly every Mass at an average parish church?[/i]

[b]yes[/b], especially at some daily Masses, where there are not as many communicants

[i]Do you think that the Pope, Congregation of Divine Worship, or national conferences of bishops should make an official declaration forbidding the use of Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion on a frequent basis?[/i]

[b]no[/b], like has been said, plenty on this has already come out from the Vatican/Holy Fathers, etc.

[i]Do you think if Extraordinary Minsiters were very infrequently or almost never used, there would be an increase of belief in the Real Presence and reverence towards the Blessed Sacrament?[/i]

[b]no[/b], the problem is catechesis, many are simply not taught that the 'wafer' is truly the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ.[/quote]

I can agree with this. Extraordinary ministers are supposed to be just that, extraordinary.

However at a Sunday Mass with 1,200 people, with one priest (which is somewhat 'normal' in many parishes around here) seems like a good time to use some of those extraordinary ministers. Daily Masses, probably not.

Will it help reverence towards the sacrament? I highly doubt it. To me there is little to no causal connection. When I go to a church I'm not familiar with and happen to sit on a side without the Priest distributing communion, does it make me any less reverent towards the sacrament? No, it never has. Was receiving the sacrament a role in my reverence towards it? Never, it was hours of adoration, good catechesis, and a firm devotion that caused it.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='rkwright' post='1432339' date='Dec 10 2007, 12:29 AM']I can agree with this. Extraordinary ministers are supposed to be just that, extraordinary.

However at a Sunday Mass with 1,200 people, with one priest (which is somewhat 'normal' in many parishes around here) seems like a good time to use some of those extraordinary ministers. Daily Masses, probably not.

Will it help reverence towards the sacrament? I highly doubt it. To me there is little to no causal connection. When I go to a church I'm not familiar with and happen to sit on a side without the Priest distributing communion, does it make me any less reverent towards the sacrament? No, it never has. Was receiving the sacrament a role in my reverence towards it? Never, it was hours of adoration, good catechesis, and a firm devotion that caused it.[/quote]
i'm pretty sure we're in agreement, you and i

[Deb]

I wonder how many people would quit receiving communion if they did away with the EM's and they had to wait a half hour in line to receive? My church only has one Priest and over 1100 active households registered. Lots of children in those households too. I know we have some deacons in training.

I have not been back in the church all that long and I was surprised that there was such a thing as a EM. I sit so that I always take from the Priest but, if at another church where I have no real choice, it does not diminish my reference for the host.

I am still stuck in the way I was brought up though. I won't receive the host in my hand nor will I get too close to the altar.

[goldenchild17]

yes

don't really care (but voted no). hasn't the vatican already spoken on this to a certain degree?

yes

Edited December 10, 2007 by goldenchild17

[Lena]

my answers kind of contradict. no, no, yes.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' post='1432073' date='Dec 9 2007, 05:26 PM']What makes you ask these questions STM?[/quote]

The sake of discussion.

[quote name='Noel's angel' post='1432110' date='Dec 9 2007, 05:50 PM']STM, our parish has 3 priests. One parish priest and 2 curates. You claimed, possibly through simple misuse of the English language, that there are 2 parish priests in a parish.

Ha!! You're telling me to read the Pope's writings on the Liturgy. Funny.
I never said that he wants EMHCs used more frequently. I just said that whatever is okay with the Pope is okay with me, and if that includes the use of EHMCs on certain occasions, then I (or anyone for that matter) should not go about saying that it shouldn't be done.[/quote]

I would have to say that any priest assigned to a particular parish a parish priest of that parish, but we are arguing semantics which is silly.

The various recent Supreme Pontiffs have many times condemned the reception of Communion on the hand as it is practiced today, so I don't think it would be wise to say that the Pope thinks the way it's done now in nearly all the world is alright.

[quote name='rkwright' post='1432195' date='Dec 9 2007, 08:18 PM']You need to prove this would actually happen. If you go to a NO mass (which I doubt you ever do...) and take note of the people who receive communion from the Priest and those who receive from Extraordinary Ministers, tell me if the ones receiving from the priest have any more reverence towards the sacrament. Good luck with that...[/quote]

I on a very, very rare occasion assist at a Mass said according to the Missal of 1962 (not only because of the atrocious abuses which occur in almost every parish which uses the New Missal, save those such as St. John Cantius in Chicago, but also because of how vulgar and incorrect the "translation" of the real Latin text is). I know many people who assist at the Ordinary Form on a daily basis who receive from the priest exclusively, even changing lines, because they feel it is more reverent.

Edited December 11, 2007 by StThomasMore