Hassan Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 [quote name='Winchester' post='1911133' date='Jul 4 2009, 10:49 PM']If an atheist argues for morals, he is either an idiot or a weakling.[/quote] This is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 [quote name='Jesus_lol' post='1911124' date='Jul 4 2009, 10:42 PM'][img]http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r267/diablo_man/proof-is-in-the-poseidon-1.jpg[/img][/quote] [i]Have you not heard of that madman who lit a lantern in the bright morning hours, ran to the market-place, and cried incessantly: "I am looking for God! I am looking for God!" As many of those who did not believe in God were standing together there, he excited considerable laughter. Have you lost him, then? said one. Did he lose his way like a child? said another. Or is he hiding? Is he afraid of us? Has he gone on a voyage? or emigrated? Thus they shouted and laughed. The madman sprang into their midst and pierced them with his glances. "Where has God gone?" he cried. "I shall tell you. We have killed him - you and I. We are his murderers. But how have we done this? How were we able to drink up the sea? Who gave us the sponge to wipe away the entire horizon? What did we do when we unchained the earth from its sun? Whither is it moving now? Whither are we moving now? Away from all suns? Are we not perpetually falling? Backward, sideward, forward, in all directions? Is there any up or down left? Are we not straying as through an infinite nothing? Do we not feel the breath of empty space? Has it not become colder? Is it not more and more night coming on all the time? Must not lanterns be lit in the morning? Do we not hear anything yet of the noise of the gravediggers who are burying God? Do we not smell anything yet of God's decomposition? Gods too decompose. God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we, murderers of all murderers, console ourselves? That which was the holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet possessed has bled to death under our knives. Who will wipe this blood off us? With what water could we purify ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we need to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we not ourselves become gods simply to be worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whosoever shall be born after us - for the sake of this deed he shall be part of a higher history than all history hitherto." Here the madman fell silent and again regarded his listeners; and they too were silent and stared at him in astonishment. At last he threw his lantern to the ground, and it broke and went out. "I have come too early," he said then; "my time has not come yet. The tremendous event is still on its way, still travelling - it has not yet reached the ears of men. Lightning and thunder require time, the light of the stars requires time, deeds require time even after they are done, before they can be seen and heard. This deed is still more distant from them than the distant stars - and yet they have done it themselves." It has been further related that on that same day the madman entered divers churches and there sang a requiem. Led out and quietened, he is said to have retorted each time: "what are these churches now if they are not the tombs and sepulchres of God?" [/i] I actually agree. When I say "moral" I'd be willing to bet it's quite different from what most people here mean. [i] Here the madman fell silent and again regarded his listeners; and they too were silent and stared at him in astonishment. At last he threw his lantern to the ground, and it broke and went out. "I have come too early," he said then; "my time has not come yet. The tremendous event is still on its way, still travelling - it has not yet reached the ears of men. Lightning and thunder require time, the light of the stars requires time, deeds require time even after they are done, before they can be seen and heard. This deed is still more distant from them than the distant stars - and yet they have done it themselves." [/i] One of the most correct things ever said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 [quote name='eagle_eye222001' post='1911051' date='Jul 4 2009, 09:54 PM']God created life and he can take it away. He also gave us an absolute truth to follow. By being God, he's in charge and he exists whether you want him too or not. [/quote] So your concern isn't that a particular world view can allow genocide rather, but rather that allows the wrong kind of genocide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafka Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1910902' date='Jul 4 2009, 07:22 PM']Well your moral world permits your God to order the wholesale annihilation of a people, every man woman and child, if he so wills. I hardly call that an improvement.[/quote] Good point. Jesus Christ is also going to kill millions and millions of people at the event of His Second Coming. The reason God preordained and ordered those tribes (Caananites, Hittites, etc) to be destroyed by the Israelites is because of their many serious sins, and their false worship of pagan gods, just like when Christ Returns he will punish many people for their serious sins and worship of Antichrist. God's Providence could have easily allowed another nation to destroy those tribes for the same reasons, but He chose Israel as a special act of salvation history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 [quote name='kafka' post='1911161' date='Jul 5 2009, 12:14 AM']Good point. Jesus Christ is also going to kill millions and millions of people at the event of His Second Coming. The reason God preordained and ordered those tribes (Caananites, Hittites, etc) to be destroyed by the Israelites is because of their many serious sins, and their false worship of pagan gods, just like when Christ Returns he will punish many people for their serious sins and worship of Antichrist. God's Providence could have easily allowed another nation to destroy those tribes for the same reasons, but He chose Israel as a special act of salvation history.[/quote] I respect the honesty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1911139' date='Jul 4 2009, 11:55 PM'][i]Have you not heard of that madman who lit a lantern in the bright morning hours, ran to the market-place, and cried incessantly: "I am looking for God! I am looking for God!"[/quote] This is one of my favorite aphorisms from Nietzsche. I believe it is from the Gay Science. It is awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 [quote name='Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam' post='1911174' date='Jul 4 2009, 11:20 PM']This is one of my favorite aphorisms from Nietzsche. I believe it is from the Gay Science. It is awesome.[/quote] (it is from "The Gay Science") I like it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafka Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1911165' date='Jul 5 2009, 12:16 AM']I respect the honesty.[/quote] God is Justice and Mercy, unfortunately for some people they let their serious sins (which not only offend God but harm the human race and entire world) go too far and then God set things in check. If He doesnt punish, then evils would just continue to go on and on and on. This is one of the big teachings about the End Times. Eventually the Church and the world becomes so severely sinful that God intervenes and in the act of intervening He begins to unfold over many years His incredible plan to definitively establish His kingdom on Earth permanently, for all times. This life isnt playtime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonkers Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 [quote name='eagle_eye222001' post='1910643' date='Jul 4 2009, 11:39 AM']So you would start with their being no morals at all in which case nothing is inherently wrong and such historical events such as the culture of 1930s Germany can be justified?[/quote] I never said there were no morals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 [quote name='bonkers' post='1911348' date='Jul 5 2009, 03:38 AM']I never said there were no morals.[/quote] So morals are really real? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 [quote name='Winchester' post='1911487' date='Jul 5 2009, 09:38 AM']So morals are really real?[/quote] I'd like to see his answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1911995' date='Jul 5 2009, 08:09 PM'] I'd like to see his answer.[/quote] meow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle_eye222001 Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1911995' date='Jul 5 2009, 08:09 PM'] I'd like to see his answer.[/quote] Maybe he doesn't have one. ---------------- Now playing: [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/lifehouse/track/days+go+by"]Lifehouse - Days Go By[/url] via [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/"]FoxyTunes[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Omg we converted the atheist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonkers Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 [quote name='Winchester' post='1911487' date='Jul 5 2009, 09:38 AM']So morals are really real?[/quote] I reject the idea that there's any inherent goodness to choosing to act morally, or being a moral person, and any belief there is is illusory. But just on a pragmatic level it would appear behaviour that is pro-social and conducive to society and individuals could be defiend as 'moral' and behaviour that is anti-social and hamrful to individuals could be defined as 'immoral'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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