What Doctrine Or Moral Teaching....

[Brother Adam]

It is a struggle anytime I don't get to live my life however I want to. Then I remember God's ways are not my ways, and his ways are ultimately better for me and will make me happier than my own ways.

[Oliver]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1925580' date='Jul 20 2009, 04:16 PM']How do you know homosexual attraction is created by God? Nobody is perfect, but our imperfections are not God's fault, nor are they reason to judge others.[/quote]
Homosexual attraction isn't chosen and the majority have expressed they were born like they were. So im confused what you are trying to say.

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1925580' date='Jul 20 2009, 04:16 PM']The Catholic view is that sexual intimacy serves to unify husband and wife [i]and[/i] create new life. Not one or the other: both.[/quote]
Since contraception cannot be used then sex most of the time will create new life. And other natural methods such as the rhythm method are known to be very unreliable.

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1925580' date='Jul 20 2009, 04:16 PM']Purgatory is simply the burning away of attachment to and love for earthly things that cannot go with us into heaven.[/quote]
Thanks, that is a very good way of looking at it.

Edited July 20, 2009 by Oliver

[Winchester]

[quote name='philothea' post='1925309' date='Jul 20 2009, 12:28 AM'][i]sigh[/i]

Contraception. Not that I specifically am at all interested in contraception (I'd be delighted to have a dozen kids, honestly) but certain contraceptive medications are the only cure to a debilitating medical condition I have. Not debilitating enough to kill me; just enough that, after puberty, I couldn't go to school, have a job, or... ironically... take care of children.

I'm trying to do the right thing, but maybe I'm just being stupid. I don't know.[/quote]
When taken for that purpose, it is more than likely morally licit.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1925434' date='Jul 20 2009, 12:32 AM']Before I knew better (and I'd like to stress that bit) I would have been considered dissenting on the Church's position on homosexuality, because of certain opinions I'm exposed to in my day to day life.[/quote]

Considering you've grown up where it is legal for homosexuals to marry, and if you publicly speak out against it, you get hauled before the human rights commission, that's not surprising.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Oliver' post='1925597' date='Jul 20 2009, 11:57 AM']Since contraception cannot be used then sex most of the time will create new life. And other natural methods such as the rhythm method are known to be very unreliable.[/quote]
Actually that's not true.

A woman is fertile for only about 24-48 hours, less if she is older. While it's true that sex prior to that time in the cycle can achieve a pregnancy, after the window is passed a woman cannot get pregnant. On top of that, even on the most fertile day of a woman's cycle, there is less than a 50 percent chance of achieving pregnancy.

Properly used, several forms of Natural Family Planning can be of great assistance to a family in helping to legitimately regulate births in a family. Using NFP, a couple becomes intimately familiar with a woman's cycle of fertile and non-fertile days, and can use this information either to actively seek pregnancy or avoid it. [url="http://www.woomb.org/omrrca/bulletin/vol27/no4/chinaEvaluation.html"]Consider this study in China,[/url] which (in part) compares the Billings Ovulation Method to an IUD and found the former to be more effective in helping couples avoid pregnancy -- and women were more likely to continue using Billings.

NFP works WITH natural cycles rather than against them. On top of that, it does a lot more to encourage HUMAN development. Animals copulate whenever they feel like it. Human beings have the capacity to develop self-control, and to employ reason in determining their actions. NFP encourages this, but contraceptive mean couples can trample all over the way they're made. The sex act itself becomes the focus, not the persons involved in it.

Edited July 20, 2009 by Terra Firma

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' post='1925549' date='Jul 20 2009, 04:56 AM']Before I converted I struggled a bit with Marian stuff. I accepted it, but I didn't understand it nor did I want to "participate" in Marian devotion. But I'm over that now. ;-)[/quote]
yeah, i still struggle with it. i 'get' that Mary is our mother, and i encourage that with my little girl, but i'd rather do Liturgy of the Hours over the rosary any day.

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1925580' date='Jul 20 2009, 08:16 AM']As for me... it's been a while, and frankly my struggles are not with believing Church teaching in my head, but with living it out in my heart and in my actions. I have some pretty strong attachments to things that sometimes feel like a strong burden, though slowly and not so steadily I'm learning to focus on our hope in Christ, refusing to settle for "good enough" and accepting the challenge to draw a little closer, especially in my prayer routine (if you can call it a routine ).[/quote]
yes, agreed, definitely.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1925647' date='Jul 20 2009, 01:29 PM']Actually that's not true.

A woman is fertile for only about 24-48 hours, less if she is older. While it's true that sex prior to that time in the cycle can achieve a pregnancy, after the window is passed a woman cannot get pregnant. On top of that, even on the most fertile day of a woman's cycle, there is less than a 50 percent chance of achieving pregnancy.

Properly used, several forms of Natural Family Planning can be of great assistance to a family in helping to legitimately regulate births in a family. Using NFP, a couple becomes intimately familiar with a woman's cycle of fertile and non-fertile days, and can use this information either to actively seek pregnancy or avoid it. [url="http://www.woomb.org/omrrca/bulletin/vol27/no4/chinaEvaluation.html"]Consider this study in China,[/url] which (in part) compares the Billings Ovulation Method to an IUD and found the former to be more effective in helping couples avoid pregnancy -- and women were more likely to continue using Billings.

NFP works WITH natural cycles rather than against them. On top of that, it does a lot more to encourage HUMAN development. Animals copulate whenever they feel like it. Human beings have the capacity to develop self-control, and to employ reason in determining their actions. NFP encourages this, but contraceptive mean couples can trample all over the way they're made. The sex act itself becomes the focus, not the persons involved in it.[/quote]


a women is fertile more than 1-2 days a month.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1925630' date='Jul 20 2009, 11:58 AM']Considering you've grown up where it is legal for homosexuals to marry, and if you publicly speak out against it, you get hauled before the human rights commission, that's not surprising.[/quote]
I have a feeling that this is part of it. My only real problem though, comes from the opinions of certain people close to me.

[Marie-Therese]

You know, its funny...coming from a Protestant upbringing where Mariology is akin to being Satanist, Marian devotion is one of the issues I have had the LEAST problem with. I think that is just a grace given to a "spiritual basket case" as Fr. Corapi says. LOL But I am very drawn to Our Lady and have a very close relationship with her. The Rosary is one of the reasons I came to the Church...I just got a view of the faith from Mary's eyes that couldn't have come any other way.

I guess I look to her so much because she is everything that I fail miserably at in terms of being faithful, and feminine...I lack severely in the girly department. You are a lot more likely to find me with a beer and a football game than with hairbows and such. I have learned much about true feminine beauty from Mother.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1925600' date='Jul 20 2009, 12:02 PM']When taken for that purpose, it is more than likely morally licit.[/quote]


winchester is correct. i have done a tone of research on this subject and read tons of stuff from scholors and priests. as long as the purpose of taking the contraceptive birth control pill is not to avoid pregnancy but instead to treat a medical problem, taking said pill is ok.

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1925664' date='Jul 20 2009, 02:59 PM']a women is fertile more than 1-2 days a month.[/quote]

A woman's "fertile time" lasts more than one or two days a month, but she can only conceive on 1 or 2 days. The reason why her "fertile time" lasts longer is because sperm can live inside her body anywhere from 3 to 5 days. Even if a couple gives themselves a 4 day "cushion" before expected ovulation she could still conceive. So, basically, it's the dude's "fault" that the "fertile time" lasts longer than 2 days.

Excerpt from "The Art of Natural Family Planning" by John and Sheila Kippley:

"Phase II is the fertile time of the cycle when marital relations can result in pregnancy. If sperm live three to five days and fertilization of the egg can happen only on two days, then there are only five to seven days per cycle on which marital relations can result in pregnancy. However, in practicing NFP to avoid pregnancy, we normally add days before ovulation to take into account the possibility of long perm life or an extra day of ovulation."

Statistics show that proper use of NFP is as reliable or more so than pills, IUDs, condoms, etc. I'm not just quoting this from NFP sources, there are lots of secular sources out there that compare BC methods that quote 97-98% reliability for NFP, the same ratio most ABC methods claim.

[MissyP89]

I'm a revert, but growing up I never really knew the Faith. Now that I'm back, and I'm more informed (thank God), my biggie is contraception.

It was drilled into me from about age ten onward that if you didn't use at [i]least[/i] a condom, preferably a condom plus the pill, you were a fool. Anyone who gets pregnant by accident completely deserves it because of their "screwup".

Plus, I'm disabled--not severely, but enough to make things like cooking and cleaning and other chores a real challenge at times.

I'm called to marry, to be a wife and a mother. I'm just afraid of a large family...and of NFP, too. I know it works, I know the statistics, but my biggest fear is having many unplanned children with very little space between. In order to take care of a family, I will likely need to keep it small, especially if my future husband is working.

I guess I'm just afraid I'm going to have 5 kids in 5 years and not be able to give them the love and care they need and deserve. It freaks me out big time.

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='MissyP89' post='1925680' date='Jul 20 2009, 03:23 PM']I'm a revert, but growing up I never really knew the Faith. Now that I'm back, and I'm more informed (thank God), my biggie is contraception.

It was drilled into me from about age ten onward that if you didn't use at [i]least[/i] a condom, preferably a condom plus the pill, you were a fool. Anyone who gets pregnant by accident completely deserves it because of their "screwup".

Plus, I'm disabled--not severely, but enough to make things like cooking and cleaning and other chores a real challenge at times.

I'm called to marry, to be a wife and a mother. I'm just afraid of a large family...and of NFP, too. I know it works, I know the statistics, but my biggest fear is having many unplanned children with very little space between. In order to take care of a family, I will likely need to keep it small, especially if my future husband is working.

I guess I'm just afraid I'm going to have 5 kids in 5 years and not be able to give them the love and care they need and deserve. It freaks me out big time.[/quote]

I know what you're feeling. I don't have any disabilities, but my pregnancies have been difficult and leave me anxious when I think about going through another one. I feel guilty because I can't take care of my family properly. I submit to and agree with the Church on contraception, I understand all they whys, but I really struggle with being open to life.

[MissyP89]

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' post='1925686' date='Jul 20 2009, 02:39 PM'] I know what you're feeling. I don't have any disabilities, but my pregnancies have been difficult and leave me anxious when I think about going through another one. I feel guilty because I can't take care of my family properly. I submit to and agree with the Church on contraception, I understand all they whys, but I really struggle with being open to life.[/quote]

Thanks. Glad to know I'm not alone. It's not that I don't [i]want[/i] to be open to life, per se, but I'm just scared of what that would mean.

Like, you see people that talk about "wanting to do God's will and leave Him in charge" and they all have really big families. I wouldn't mind a big family...I just don't think I could physically handle all of that. But all moms have so much on their plates, and I know God will take care of everything. It's a trust issue--both in God and in my charts.

[scardella]

The only thing I'm struggling with is the recent talk about
"no licit solution" to non-implanted IVF embryos and embryo adoption..

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Oliver' post='1925597' date='Jul 20 2009, 12:57 PM']Homosexual attraction isn't chosen and the majority have expressed they were born like they were. So im confused what you are trying to say.[/quote]

Multiple sclerosis is not chosen and, being strongly influenced by genetics, the majority are effectively born with it. Did God created MS? Did God also create allergies? Did he create poverty or broken families? Of all the things people are born with or born into -- that are outside of their control -- homosexuality is the only one that we presume was created by God.

[quote name='Oliver' post='1925597' date='Jul 20 2009, 12:57 PM']Since contraception cannot be used then sex most of the time will create new life. And other natural methods such as the rhythm method are known to be very unreliable.[/quote]

A woman can only conceive during a few days of each month, so a couple using no contraception or planning method has a 15% chance of conceiving. The "rhythm" method is basically useless; the Church hasn't recommended it in a long time. Today there are at least three advanced methods with science to support them -- the same science that the pill is based upon.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Marie-Therese' post='1925667' date='Jul 20 2009, 03:01 PM']You are a lot more likely to find me with a beer and a football game than with hairbows and such.[/quote]

Ain't nothin' wrong with that!

[tinytherese]

[quote name='Oliver' post='1925597' date='Jul 20 2009, 11:57 AM']Homosexual attraction isn't chosen and the majority have expressed they were born like they were. So im confused what you are trying to say.[/quote]

It's not that God creates the same sex attraction, it's that He permits it to occur so that the individual may grow in holiness by trusting in Him and living a chaste life-style despite how difficult it is. As the Holy Father wrote in a pastoral letter regarding homosexuals before he became pope, a person that undergoes the cross of same sex attraction is called to live out the Paschal Mystery- suffering and dying to themselves just as Christ did and through this Passion rise to new life. The catechism discusses something along these lines as well.

[tinytherese]

[quote name='Didacus' post='1925564' date='Jul 20 2009, 08:52 AM']I struggle still with the doctrine of the 'Real Presence' in the Eucharist. Probably just the obstinate 'I have to completely understand everything' side of me talking but I simply can't grasp it intellectually, and thus without this element I have trouble believing and accepting.

Still working on it though, wish I had more time to read stuff.[/quote]

I don't know if this will work for you but this short article helped me in my apologetics class.

[url="http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0103sbs.asp"]http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0103sbs.asp[/url]

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1925652' date='Jul 20 2009, 01:43 PM']+J.M.J.+

yeah, i still struggle with it. i 'get' that Mary is our mother, and i encourage that with my little girl, but i'd rather do Liturgy of the Hours over the rosary any day.


yes, agreed, definitely.[/quote]
Werd, though I still say the rosary, at least a bit of it. Mary isn't a big problem for me, just my protestant fans. Technically, my thing about Mary is all the devotions that we just [i]have [/i]to take part of otherwise we're in jeopardy ([eg] of being stabbed by a satanist or hit by a bus without a priest just happening to be there or something) . Iunno if I have any doctrinal or moral issues that I'm struggling with. Maybe stuff pertaining to the Orthodox, but it's due to a ton of stuff I don't know.