White House: Snitch On People

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1942176' date='Aug 6 2009, 04:20 PM']...

And I'm pretty sure the first paragraph is misleading because millions more Americans are in favor of reform than are against it, contrary to the picture they try to paint about people being opposed.[/quote]

A large majority are for reform. That whole group is not behind Obama's idea of reform though.

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[Brother Adam]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1942176' date='Aug 6 2009, 05:20 PM']I don't think this is solely about abortion... I'm pretty sure it's about the healthcare reform in general.

And I'm pretty sure the first paragraph is misleading because millions more Americans are in favor of reform than are against it, contrary to the picture they try to paint about people being opposed.[/quote]

Reform yes, socialized Obamacare, no.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Brother Adam' post='1942184' date='Aug 6 2009, 02:30 PM']Reform yes, socialized Obamacare, no.[/quote]
"Obamacare" is a made up idea of the GOP. As far as I know, the reform involves creating a public option and creating the necessity to get some kind of insurance in order to stop the money pit that is abuse of the ER system. Sounds sensible to me.

That being said, if so many people are opposed, I'd like to see the lazy GOP reps come up with something comparable. It's the usual case of one party creating a comprehensive plan, the other party complaining and not offering any kind of alternative.

If they choose to sit on their hands, that's their problem, but they have no one to blame but themselves and are just as responsible to the people as the dems are for their plan.

Edited August 6, 2009 by fidei defensor

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1942194' date='Aug 6 2009, 04:41 PM']"Obamacare" is a made up idea of the GOP. As far as I know, the reform involves creating a public option and creating the necessity to get some kind of insurance in order to stop the money pit that is abuse of the ER system. Sounds sensible to me.[/quote]

Except where there is legitimate reason to believe Obama and the Democrats plan to drive insurance companies the way of the dinosaur and guide everyone into a one-payer system.

[quote]That being said, if so many people are opposed, I'd like to see the lazy GOP reps come up with something comparable. It's the usual case of one party creating a comprehensive plan, the other party complaining and not offering any kind of alternative.

If they choose to sit on their hands, that's their problem, but they have no one to blame but themselves and are just as responsible to the people as the dems are for their plan.[/quote]

I agree with your point here. The GOP should be crafting their own plan and marketing it next to Obama's.

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[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' post='1942204' date='Aug 6 2009, 02:48 PM']Except where there is legitimate reason to believe Obama and the Democrats plan to drive insurance companies the way of the dinosaur and guide everyone into a one-payer system.[/quote]
I'll believe it when I see it. I don't buy into conspiracy theories.

[quote]I agree with your point here. The GOP should be crafting their own plan and marketing it next to Obama's.[/quote]
I'm not a rank and file party member. Heck, I'm a registered independent. I'd really like to see a competitive plan, because I do think there are other options than solely what the democrats are considering.

[Fidei Defensor]

btw, here's the full text of the bill:
[url="http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.txt.pdf"]http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/ge...h3200ih.txt.pdf[/url]

i think to be fair, if you want to really claim anything about what Obama does and doesn't want, you should read it. It's 1017 pages long, but I think instead of listening to the talking heads or the biased media from any place, you'd be better off deciding on your own after reading it.

Or, at least stop stating your opinions as fact until you have. I have told my opinion and impression, but I'm planning on reading it and informing myself about what the bill actually plans.

[dairygirl4u2c]

dang, i'm impressed with the way obama's cabinet is so aptly able to manipulate political maneurvers - eg, say 'facts are stubborn things', get people riled up about an inflammatory insinuation like that, get people to look down upon those who would oppose it.

i have a feeling though, if it were to come to natioal attention 'facts are stubborn things', it wouldn't sway sentiment much, this isn't something like evolution where you should somewhat feel silly for not believing at all etc.
it could even backfire on em.
if they had the nerve to include abortion stuff, i'd hope the bill would fail, just for that audacity. it's a controversial enough bill, just lay off, ya know.
even if i supported abortion rights, which i mostl don't, im pretty sure i'd say the same thing.

[Winchester]

First step: Require all insurances to accept all doctors, all doctors to accept all insurance.

Once this is done they will all find a way to work together.

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1942206' date='Aug 6 2009, 04:51 PM']I'll believe it when I see it. I don't buy into conspiracy theories.
....[/quote]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ-6ebku3_E"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ-6ebku3_E[/url]

Considering Obama's idealistic leaders and his very left liberal leanings......it's not a conspiracy theory but a realistic outcome.

I won't call it a guarantee, but it wouldn't be unnatural for it to happen.

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[Norseman82]

Interesting column by John Kass in the Chicago Tribune this morning:

[url="http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-kass-06-aug06,0,6162767.column"]http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columni...,6162767.column[/url]

Summary: a congressman is investigating implied threats to a governor to cut off federal $$$$ unless a senator from that state stops being critical of Obama's policies.

[Hassan]

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' post='1942462' date='Aug 6 2009, 10:33 PM']t's not a conspiracy theory but a realistic outcome.[/quote]


No. Not even almost.

[Hassan]

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' post='1941678' date='Aug 6 2009, 12:07 AM']I or Angel*Star are not saying that all things said against the government are gospel truth. Rather we are pointing out that this program has the capability and realistic potential to give the government the ability to shut down any type of opposition to it's plan whether the opposition is legit or not.[/quote]

No. I'm sorry but you cannot support this because there is no such potential.

[quote]Who gets to decide what information is true and what is not? Will the government really admit legitimate concerns or will they lie and say something is false when it is in fact not because they want their program to make it?[/quote]

What in the world? The Obama administration has a message, a set of assertions. Other individuals have contrary messages. Some of these contrary messages, like the disgusting fear tactics thrown to the elderly, are utter bullocks but can cause people who might otherwise support the program to be afraid. The administration is asking its supporters to report such rumors so they can get a handle on what rumors they need to attempt to rebut. This is how a democracy works. I have an opinion and wish to convince people I am right. You have an opinion and wish to convince others that you are right. I want to know what your claims are so I can try to rebut them, to present why I feel your claims are unwarranted or outright fabrications. You seek the same information. It's just part of the debate.

[quote]Maybe Bush should have had this program when we went to Iraq? I'm sure you and Hassan would have been fine with it. After all, the government would never lie to us. [/quote]

What? If the Bush administration sought to discover what opponents of the war were claiming so they could present the Administration's view? I'm sure they did just that, they had every right to do just that and they would have been geniuses to do otherwise.

[quote]Basically this program is saying that people are stupid and will believe crazy stories so we better eliminate all the possible bad stories so the stupid citizens are not swept away with any ideas........forbid the thought. [/quote]
Yes. Many people are ignorant and have only the most tentative understanding of what is going on politically. You don't need any program to say that I'm happy to inform you of the fact if you were unaware. Where do you get that they are "eliminating" bad stories? They don't have any such power. They do have the power and absolute right to try and figure out which rumors they need to counter. That is how debates in the public arena work.


[quote]If the government was all GOP.....would you trust them with a similar program? [/quote]

It's not a "program". It's a post from an administration "staffer". How far up do you think this "staffer" is that he was typing up internet notes? I assure that if this agency knew that say Rob Emmanuel was witting it they'd have published his name, not some vague and non descriptive title

Edited August 7, 2009 by Hassan

[Hassan]

[quote name='Brother Adam' post='1942184' date='Aug 6 2009, 03:30 PM']Reform yes, socialized Obamacare, no.[/quote]


You mean like that commie croutons they shove down the throats of our boys in the military? Forcing them to be in a single payer government run system?


How many seniors want to do away with the "socialized" healthcare they have access too? How about the people in the 36 or so nations whose citizens have access to better health care than us?

[Katholikos]

When the White House asks that "fishy emails" be sent to them -- senders info included -- we'd all better worry. Strongman totalitarian dictator tactics. Obama perhaps got the idea from that book Hugo Chavez gave him.

My State is being threatened with withdrawal of federal funds because my senator is a strong voice against Obamacare. Scary stuff from a governnent that demands compliance with its policies -- or else. Opposition will be punished.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Katholikos' post='1942626' date='Aug 7 2009, 05:32 AM']When the White House asks that "fishy emails" be sent to them -- senders info included -- we'd all better worry.[/quote]

It's asking about chain, mass e-mails.

[quote]Strongman totalitarian dictator tactics.[/quote]

Utter horse hockey and a genuine to people who have or do live under actual totalitarian regimes.

[quote]Obama perhaps got the idea from that book Hugo Chavez gave him.[/quote]

I'd point out that Obama didn't make the post but God knows that those silly facts won't sway people who have some perverse, maniacal need to believe that Obama is a rising dictator.


[quote]My State is being threatened with withdrawal of federal funds because my senator is a strong voice against Obamacare. Scary stuff from a governnent that demands compliance with its policies -- or else. Opposition will be punished.[/quote]

Which Senator is that. Now be forewarned before giving me that information that I may well pass it along to Obama so he can send his goon squads out to silence you.