Chestertonian Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1942742' date='Aug 7 2009, 11:04 AM']I hate to burst your bubble, but the government has been doing this kind of thing for a long time. It didn't start under Obama. Do you quickly forget Bush's phone tapping program? It's been much worse.[/quote] Yeah, because asking the American people to "rat" on one another for spreading what the Obama administration deems "misinformation," is far less Orwellian than tapping calls or e-mails where someone in the United States is in contact with a person abroad who is believed to have links to al-Qaida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lounge Daddy Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 [quote name='Chestertonian' post='1943923' date='Aug 8 2009, 11:14 PM']... far less Orwellian than tapping calls or e-mails where someone in the United States is in contact with a person abroad who is believed to have links to al-Qaida. [/quote] Ya, but it's ok now because in August of 2008[url="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/16/washington/16fisa.html"] a secret government court ruled that the secret government wiretapping programs are perfectly legal[/url]. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lounge Daddy Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 But [url="http://www.nypost.com/seven/08072009/gossip/pagesix/burger_watch_183423.htm"]don't snitch on the first lady scarfing down burgers[/url]! Recently at a burger joint, Michelle Obama ordered up some food and... [quote]Three starving Secret Service guys were literally standing over the grill as Spike made the burgers... Fellow patrons had their cellphones temporarily confiscated to prevent pictures from being taken.[/quote] The Political Class wants to watch you. The Political Class wants you to help it watch your neighbors, in the name of Patriotism. But, by golly, The Political Class doesn't want you to watch them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Jesus_lol' post='1941635' date='Aug 5 2009, 10:26 PM']wow, love how Hassan was saying its nothng bad unless you are the type to overreact to things, and then this post? wow. seems like a campaign against internet disinformation. totally a hopeless battle and pretty pointless, but hardly the end of the world. like it or not some of the opposing points on government policy are just plain falsified and are actually disinformation. such as "vote no on prop ??? because it secretly means obama gets access to your bank accounts, to fund his baby seal clubbing expeditions" etc[/quote] Obama's administration really does appear to be inept, because it is constantly doing things that look sinister, even when they are -- as you say in your post -- "a hopeless battle and pretty pointless." The president and his associates should be intelligent enough to know that there are going to be people who, for reasons of conscience, oppose the administration's plans, and so those presently running the White House should simply act like adults and not promote childish behavior (i.e., informing on people) among their own followers. Edited August 9, 2009 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1944332' date='Aug 9 2009, 04:40 PM']The president and his associates should be intelligent enough to know that there are going to be people who, for reasons of conscience, oppose the administration's plans, and so those presently running the White House should simply act like adults and not promote childish behavior (i.e., informing on people) among their own followers.[/quote] I will yet again point out that the actual text does not ask for people to be informed on. It asks people to report rumors they hear. No level of intelligence on the part of the Obama administration will help them if people will feel licensed to simply make things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1942742' date='Aug 7 2009, 12:04 PM']I hate to burst your bubble, but the government has been doing this kind of thing for a long time. It didn't start under Obama. Do you quickly forget Bush's phone tapping program? It's been much worse.[/quote] The defense of Bush administration policies which legitimately did play fast and lose with the constitution is precisely the reason I will not be able to take this inane panicking seriously. An Obama staffer asks for rumors to be reported so they can get out in front of them in the battle over public opinion? Well by God it's a new era of Stalinism! But the PATRIOT ACT? It's just protecting our freedom! I'm sorry. The Obama administration has continued some Bush policies that legitimately undermine the constitution. Of course these substantive threats to the constitution must be ignored. To condemn Obama (correctly) there would also be to condemn the Bush administration. Some "conservatives" are legitimately doing their part to attack corrosive policies, but so much of the popular rabble continues to focus on such inane, trivial non issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 (edited) Ve vant to know who d issenters are so we can send dem to siberia! How many years have we heard of the republican racists who want to starve children. I think some of the rhetoric on both sides goes a bit far but this reporting croutons is unamerican! Doesn't he realize there is free speach in this country. I don't believe for a minute that this national health care program is not going to include abortion. That's bs Edited August 10, 2009 by thessalonian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 In an op-ed in USA Today Pelosi will announce that Americans at Town Hall meetings who dare protest are unamerican. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1944811' date='Aug 9 2009, 08:03 PM']I will yet again point out that the actual text does not ask for people to be informed on. It asks people to report rumors they hear.[/quote] So reporting "rumors" is not informing on those who disagree with the administration? This isn't the Lame Board. [quote name='Hassan' post='1944811' date='Aug 9 2009, 08:03 PM']No level of intelligence on the part of the Obama administration will help them if people will feel licensed to simply make things up.[/quote] It is sad that the Obama administration feels free to simply make things up as it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Reporting a "rumor" via forwarding an individuals email to the White House keeps the original senders email in the header. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1944900' date='Aug 9 2009, 10:33 PM']So reporting "rumors" is not informing on those who disagree with the administration? This isn't the Lame Board.[/quote] If you don't report the names then it is difficult to see how that qualifies as informing on an individual. Or we could ignore what the individual in the Obama administration actually wrote. Let's just say that reporting the existence of rumors the Administration wants to provide a rebuttal to is the same as reporting an individual as some sort of political dissident. Clearly the ordinary standards of critical reading on this thread went out the window long ago so it won't be much of a jump. [quote]It is sad that the Obama administration feels free to simply make things up as it goes.[/quote] How is this a response to the text you quoted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lounge Daddy Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Egh. I argue that the entire Republicrat Party system makes things up as it goes along. And here is a prediction. The Obamacare deal will not go through. But it won't entirely fail either. Why? Because they need as many "hot-button" issues to remain unresolved, because they need these things on the table. They need these "us vs them" issues to divide us; because it empowers the Political Class. That's why FOCA, or anything resembling an actual pro-choice resolution, is just a scare. That's also why anything like a pro-life resolution to the abortion debate was equally just a scare for the left back when George HW Bush became president, or when the GOP controlled Congress and the White House. That's why we still have troops in the Middle East, and are ramping up troop levels in Afghanistan -- even though the alleged anti-war guy won the presidency. That's also why the threat of a military draft was hogwash when Bush was running for re-election. The GOP also promised term-limits, and campaigned on that issue in the late 1990s. ... until they gained the majority in Congress. They also promised to privatise social security, but dropped the issue after the election. The Democrats won the majority in 2006 on a promise to pull the troops out of Iraq, but then dropped it. They keep all these issues on the table on purpose. The same is true for FOCA, and possibly for this health care issue as well. At least, I wouldn't be surprised. They want us against each other so that we are too distracted with ourselves to notice that we don't have a real two party system any more. The U.S. has become a single party state, with a Political Class playing right and left off each other. Why? To insure support from [i]both[/i] sides. After all, the Government hates competition. "Vote Republicrat." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 [quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='1944957' date='Aug 9 2009, 11:05 PM']Egh. I argue that the entire Republicrat Party system makes things up as it goes along. And here is a prediction. The Obamacare deal will not go through. But it won't entirely fail either. Why? Because they need as many "hot-button" issues to remain unresolved, because they need these things on the table. They need these "us vs them" issues to divide us; because it empowers the Political Class. That's why FOCA, or anything resembling an actual pro-choice resolution, is just a scare. That's also why anything like a pro-life resolution to the abortion debate was equally just a scare for the left back when George HW Bush became president, or when the GOP controlled Congress and the White House. That's why we still have troops in the Middle East, and are ramping up troop levels in Afghanistan -- even though the alleged anti-war guy won the presidency. That's also why the threat of a military draft was hogwash when Bush was running for re-election. The GOP also promised term-limits, and campaigned on that issue in the late 1990s. ... until they gained the majority in Congress. They also promised to privatise social security, but dropped the issue after the election. The Democrats won the majority in 2006 on a promise to pull the troops out of Iraq, but then dropped it. They keep all these issues on the table on purpose. The same is true for FOCA, and possibly for this health care issue as well. At least, I wouldn't be surprised. They want us against each other so that we are too distracted with ourselves to notice that we don't have a real two party system any more. The U.S. has become a single party state, with a Political Class playing right and left off each other. Why? To insure support from [i]both[/i] sides. After all, the Government hates competition. "Vote Republicrat."[/quote] I think a lot of this is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle_eye222001 Posted August 10, 2009 Author Share Posted August 10, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1944891' date='Aug 9 2009, 11:20 PM']In an op-ed in USA Today Pelosi will announce that Americans at Town Hall meetings who dare protest are unamerican.[/quote] Oh the hypocrisy ---------------- Now playing: [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/semisonic/track/closing+time"]Semisonic - Closing Time[/url] via [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/"]FoxyTunes[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Hassan' post='1944921' date='Aug 9 2009, 11:47 PM']If you don't report the names then it is difficult to see how that qualifies as informing on an individual.[/quote] Ever heard of email headers? Apparently not. Most individuals set up their email where it will show their real name in place of the email address under the "from" field. This is saved in any and all forwards of that email. So to is the actual email address of the individual(s), as well as the time and date it was sent and everyone on the email list, and their names. So when someone forwards a "fishy" email at the request of the White House, the White House will indeed have the names of individuals/dissidents. Yes if anyone at the request of the White House forwards a "fishy" email, which is clearly what they requested, the W.H. will indeed have the names of individuals. [quote name='Hassan' post='1944921' date='Aug 9 2009, 11:47 PM']Or we could ignore what the individual in the Obama administration actually wrote. Let's just say that reporting the existence of rumors the Administration wants to provide a rebuttal to is the same as reporting an individual as some sort of political dissident. Clearly the ordinary standards of critical reading on this thread went out the window long ago so it won't be much of a jump.[/quote] You choose to blindly trust a government official. We do not. I find the request to be potentially illegal. I also find it to be highly questionable because it is similar to request of dictatorships and at best a very unneeded stupid and foolish request. Unneeded because all the White House has to do is turn on the AM Radio, there is no need to ask such a stupid foolish easily misunderstood request. Edited August 10, 2009 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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