Planned Parenthood

[XIX]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1948047' date='Aug 13 2009, 01:53 PM']Do you all have any idea how offensive many Jews find this?[/quote]
Not really.

I don't recall ever seeing somebody actually come up with some sort of logical explanation for why the Nazi/Hitler analogy would be inaccurate, invalid, or ill-advised. Just some sort of presupposition that any such reference is obviously the stupidest thing you could ever say. It's a weak assertion if it doesn't have any supporting arguments. It's also weak because remembering history is of obvious importance--if we don't remember history, we are doomed to repeat its errors.

So no, I don't know how offensive it is. It never comes up. I can conjure a guess, I imagine they find it offensive. But it's only a guess. For all I know some Jews could be thrilled that people remember their sufferings, and that we are trying to avoid the same thing. Probably not, but maybe.

In any event, the analogy works on a logical level. It's a solid debate tactic--point to something that all parties can agree on, and work from there.

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1948047' date='Aug 13 2009, 01:53 PM']Do you all have any idea how offensive many Jews find this? Do you care?



Why not try to make your case without acting as parasites, sucking on the emotional blood which flows through the memory of the shoah.[/quote]


Thing is, the Jews do not have sole dibs on suffering caused by Nazis. How many people died in the Holocaust? Half of that toal were not Jewish. They were mentally retarded, physically handicapped, Catholic, black, homosexual, or gypsy.

How many people suffered in Europe because of the Nazi's? How many Americans died on D-Day because of the Nazi's?

I am a Catholic. I am an American. My people suffered because of the Nazis. I am not offended by comparisons between abortion and the Holocaust. If other groups are offended, well, I"m sorry. But it seems accurate to me.

[Chestertonian]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1948012' date='Aug 13 2009, 10:17 AM']But it is the argument. That is if Jewish People are really people, and babies are really babies. What made the Nazi's evil was their support of mass murder, not wee mustaches, and goosestepping. But declaring one group of people unhuman and killing them on a large scale.[/quote]

Yeah! Don't you know that unless you riddle your posts with euphemisms for baby-killing that you're likely to offend someone! We must be polite, pleasant, inoffensive and most importantly, politically correct, in our quest to put an end to what we consider to be mass murder.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Chestertonian' post='1948096' date='Aug 13 2009, 12:42 PM']Yeah! Don't you know that unless you riddle your posts with euphemisms for baby-killing that you're likely to offend someone! We must be polite, pleasant, inoffensive and most importantly, politically correct, in our quest to put an end to what we consider to be mass murder.[/quote]
Ironically, if I make a comparison to eating an aborted fetus to make my point, I'm usually warned and banned from Phatmass for being offensive. How come I don't have the right to not be offended, but you do?

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1948098' date='Aug 13 2009, 01:48 PM']Ironically, if I make a comparison to eating an aborted fetus to make my point, I'm usually warned and banned from Phatmass for being offensive. How come I don't have the right to not be offended, but you do?[/quote]

If you hadn't noticed, this is a Catholic board, not a secular humanist one.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1948127' date='Aug 13 2009, 02:23 PM']If you hadn't noticed, this is a Catholic board, not a secular humanist one.[/quote]
No kidding. However, I hear time and time again around here, "you don't have the right to not be offended." If you believe that, I should get to speak what I want as well.

[Chestertonian]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1948098' date='Aug 13 2009, 12:48 PM']Ironically, if I make a comparison to eating an aborted fetus to make my point, I'm usually warned and banned from Phatmass for being offensive. How come I don't have the right to not be offended, but you do?[/quote]

Well believe it or not, I actually don't make the rules or enforce them. Now I haven't been around here for long, but I would assume you'd take up perceived policy enforcement inconsistencies with the moderators. Perhaps a secular political website would be more tolerant of your "cannibalization of babies" argument.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Chestertonian' post='1948151' date='Aug 13 2009, 02:46 PM']Well believe it or not, I actually don't make the rules or enforce them. Now I haven't been around here for long, but I would assume you'd take up perceived policy enforcement inconsistencies with the moderators. Perhaps a secular political website would be more tolerant of your "cannibalization of babies" argument.[/quote]
The problem with that is that I have no access to PM, to the report function, to user profile... to basically anything. Which is fine. Their choice. However, it is quite hypocritical to say that Catholics have the right to say what they want because no one has the right to not be offended, but they can have a cow when they're offended by something.

Point in case, I'm offended by the consistent use of Holocaust and Hitler comparisons. But no one seems to care about that.

[Chestertonian]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1948154' date='Aug 13 2009, 02:47 PM']The problem with that is that I have no access to PM, to the report function, to user profile... to basically anything. Which is fine. Their choice. However, it is quite hypocritical to say that Catholics have the right to say what they want because no one has the right to not be offended, but they can have a cow when they're offended by something.

Point in case, I'm offended by the consistent use of Holocaust and Hitler comparisons. But no one seems to care about that.[/quote]

Why are you taking your gripe with the moderators/other posters up with me? When did "I" tell you that you "don't have the right to not be offended"? When did "I" ban you?

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Chestertonian' post='1948187' date='Aug 13 2009, 03:12 PM']Why are you taking your gripe with the moderators/other posters up with me? When did "I" tell you that you "don't have the right to not be offended"? When did "I" ban you?[/quote]
My original reply was to your comment:

[quote name='Chestertonian']Yeah! Don't you know that unless you riddle your posts with euphemisms for baby-killing that you're likely to offend someone! We must be polite, pleasant, inoffensive and most importantly, politically correct, in our quest to put an end to what we consider to be mass murder.[/quote]

I was expressing my opinion that if you're allowed to be impolite, unpleasant, offensive and politically incorrect, everyone should be.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1948047' date='Aug 13 2009, 11:53 AM']Do you all have any idea how offensive many Jews find this? Do you care?



Why not try to make your case without acting as parasites, sucking on the emotional blood which flows through the memory of the shoah.[/quote]

I care about the humanity of Jews, and how it was denied to them. I care about the humanity of babies in the womb which is denied to them.

I've spoken to Jewish people, who were prolife, about this before and they had no problem with it and agreed. I'm sure that not all Jewish people agree, but to paint them all with a big brush and lump them all together and assume the will all be offended is wrong.

Also nice play of using an emotional appeal to attack what you believe is an emotional appeal.

[Chestertonian]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1948188' date='Aug 13 2009, 03:15 PM']My original reply was to your comment:



I was expressing my opinion that if you're allowed to be impolite, unpleasant, offensive and politically incorrect, everyone should be.[/quote]

My comment wasn't in reference to this forum in particular; it was in reference to debate with pro-abortionists in general.

Edited August 13, 2009 by Chestertonian

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Chestertonian' post='1948203' date='Aug 13 2009, 03:29 PM']My comment wasn't in reference to this forum in particular; it was in reference to debate with pro-abortionists in general.[/quote]
I know. So was mine, to debate in general.

Here's a hint -- the healthcare reform debate is being conducted in the way you think is appropriate, and it's not working out so well.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1948205' date='Aug 13 2009, 05:35 PM']I know. So was mine, to debate in general.

Here's a hint -- the healthcare reform debate is being conducted in the way you think is appropriate, and it's not working out so well.[/quote]

Of course we disagree on "how" the reform debate is being conducted by americans at town halls but it is working.

[url="http://www.gallup.com/fvideo.aspx?i=vrCAy2PICQVOugWhJ03TjolLSM9ISq4ZlmKHP@9fcRHg4bG1ioqgn766xcjyINnI8kyxxsSNtysqVXnfZ4FQEwaa"]http://www.gallup.com/fvideo.aspx?i=vrCAy2...ysqVXnfZ4FQEwaa[/url]

[url="http://www.gallup.com/poll/122276/Town-Hall-Meetings-Generate-Interest-Sympathy.aspx"]http://www.gallup.com/poll/122276/Town-Hal...t-Sympathy.aspx[/url]

[url="http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll"]http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_con...l_tracking_poll[/url]

[url="http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/trust_on_issues"]Voters Give GOP First-Time Lead on Health Care[/url]

Edited August 13, 2009 by KnightofChrist

[tinytherese]

According to what a coworker of mine said, she found out that the Planned Parenthood in my hometown sometimes tells girls that they are pregnant when they really are not so that they can make money off of an abortion from them. Just think of that. The girl goes through that harmful proceedure and she doesn't even have a baby inside of her!

Also, Planned Parenthood has been known to teach sex ed. to elemtentary school kids, even kindergardeners! And they teach graphic sexual content. Doing stuff that I can't even mention on PM or post a link to without getting warned by a moderator.

And as far as the Nazi issue goes, if we never discuss it outside of history class then we may forget the terrible lessons that we learned from that experience and repeate the same mistakes. Besides, there are actually people who deny that the Holocost even happened, calling it a myth and when we refrain from discussing it would just enforce their claim. There's a difference between talking about a taboo topic for intelligent discussion and talking about a tough issue in an offensive manner so as to tick people off. Princess Gianna's post doesn't strike me as the second of the two.