Passover One Week Away

[todd_vetter33]

is anyone here at phatmass phorum willing to answer this question which is based on my last two posts?

[color="#ff0000"]In lieu of basic critical thinking skills. Lets try to agree on one thing. I say Jesus died on a Wednsday preparation day and you apparently agree that Jesus died on a Friday Preparation day and since Jesus was crucified only one time, this one time event could have only occured on a single day and only one day can be the correct day or truth from God. Any other day is a lie and deception.

Anyone professing a single one time event occured on a day other than what it occured on, is telling a lie and their testimony is invalid. Would you agree with this statement? [/color]

Edited April 13, 2010 by todd_vetter33

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='13 April 2010 - 05:17 PM' timestamp='1271197027' post='2092747']
In lou of basic critical thinking skills. Lets try to agree on one thing. I say Jesus died on a Wednsday preparation day and you apparently agree that Jesus died on a Friday Preparation day and since Jesus was crucified only one time, this one time event could have only occured on a single day and only one day can be the correct day or truth from God. Any other day is a lie and deception.

Anyone professing a single one time event occured on a day other than what it occured on, is telling a lie and their testimony is invalid due to lacking the inspiration of the holy spirit. Would you agree with this statement?
[/quote]
Lieu.

The conclusions you have drawn are erroneous.

[todd_vetter33]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='13 April 2010 - 06:05 PM' timestamp='1271199958' post='2092779']
Lieu.

The conclusions you have drawn are erroneous.
[/quote]

And you said typos were not that important. Lets just keep the question simple regardless of the day the crucifixion occured on.

Anyone professing a single one time event occured on a day other than what it occured on, is telling a lie and their testimony is invalid. Would you agree with this statement?

Can a one time single event occur on more than one day, be illustrated as occuring on more than one day and it still be truth from God?

Edited April 13, 2010 by todd_vetter33

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='13 April 2010 - 06:46 PM' timestamp='1271202412' post='2092810']
And you said typos were not that important. Lets just keep the question simple regardless of the day the crucifixion occured on.

Anyone professing a single one time event occured on a day other than what it occured on, is telling a lie and their testimony is invalid. Would you agree with this statement?

Can a one time single event occur on more than one day, be illustrated as occuring on more than one day and it still be truth from God?
[/quote]
That was supposed to be ironic. I think it worked.

Your conclusions are erroneous.

[todd_vetter33]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='13 April 2010 - 06:56 PM' timestamp='1271202985' post='2092816']
That was supposed to be ironic. I think it worked.

Your conclusions are erroneous.
[/quote]


so are you saying it's Erroneous for a single one time event to occur on more than one day? Or are you saying that a one time single event can occur on more than one day and still be truth?

[todd_vetter33]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='13 April 2010 - 06:56 PM' timestamp='1271202985' post='2092816']
That was supposed to be ironic. I think it worked.

Your conclusions are erroneous.
[/quote]

"Can a one time single event occur on more than one day, be illustrated as occuring on more than one day and it still be truth from God?"

I'm only asking you to provide clarity for this [color="#ff0000"]critical thinking skills concept addressed in the above question, [/color][color="#000000"]due to what the Douey reheims bible presents for the following topic for three single one time events. since you simply dodge the question due to lacking the truth to answer the question i'll present why I am asking the question.

[font="Times New Roman"][size="3"][color="#0000ff"]These verses that follow from John, Matt and Luke for the single event of Jesus driving out the money changers from the temple Place this event on different days. John implies Jesus performed this event two years before it occurred on either 13 or 14 Nissan. Now According to [/color][color="#ff0000"]critical logical thinking[/color], [color="#0000ff"]the gospel of John must be thrown out and ignored, because it's presenting a physical impossibility. I am personnally under the understanding that a single one time event must be illustrated occuring when it actually occured or the event is not illustrated truthfully. For example: could the Hebrews receive the Law of God from the mountain in the wilderness two years before they left egypt? Anyone trying to say yes to this question would clearly be telling a lie.[/color][/size][/font]

[font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]John 2: 13-17 (Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition)[/size][/font]

[font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Jesus drives out the money changers.[/size][/font]

[font="Times New Roman"][size="3"][b][u][sup]13[/sup][/u][/b][b][u]And the pasch of the Jews was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem[/u].[/b] [b][sup]14[/sup][/b]And he found in the temple them that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting. [b][sup]15[/sup][/b]And when he had made, as it were, a scourge of little cords, he drove them all out of the temple, the sheep also and the oxen, and the money of the changers he poured out, and the tables he overthrew. [b][sup]16[/sup][/b]And to them that sold doves he said: Take these things hence, and make not the house of my Father a house of traffic. [b][sup]17[/sup][/b]And his disciples remembered, that it was written: The zeal of thy house hath eaten me up.[/size][/font]

[font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]John 2: 13-17 NAB (since some catholics prefer this version)[/size][/font]

[font="Times New Roman"][size="3"][b][u]13 Since the Passover of the Jews was near, Jesus went up to Jerusalem.[/u][/b] [/size][/font][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]14 [/size][/font][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]He found in the temple area those who sold oxen, sheep, and doves, as well as the money-changers seated there. [/size][/font][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]15 [/size][/font][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]He made a whip out of cords and drove them all out of the temple area, with the sheep and oxen, and spilled the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables, [/size][/font][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]16 [/size][/font][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]and to those who sold doves he said, "Take these out of here, and stop making my Father's house a marketplace." [/size][/font][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]17 [/size][/font][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]His disciples recalled the words of scripture, "Zeal for your house will consume me." [/size][/font]

[color="#0000ff"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]What Follows in Matthew is the time line of events regarding Jesus triumphal entry, Jesus cleansing the temple of the money changers, and the cursing of the fig tree which according to Matthew occurred the next day from the first two illustrated events (triumphal entry and cleansing of the temple).[/size][/font]
[/color]
[size="3"]Matthew 21 (Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition)
[/size][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"][color="#800080"][b][sup]1[/sup][/b]And when they drew nigh to Jerusalem, and were come to Bethphage, unto mount Olivet, then Jesus sent two disciples, [b][sup]2[/sup][/b]Saying to them: Go ye into the village that is over against you, and immediately you shall find an ass tied, and a colt with her: loose them and bring them to me. [b][sup]3[/sup][/b]And if any man shall say anything to you, say ye, that the Lord hath need of them: and forthwith he will let them go. [b][sup]4[/sup][/b]Now all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying:[b][sup]5[/sup][/b]Tell ye the daughter of Sion: Behold thy king cometh to thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of her that is used to the yoke.[b][sup]6[/sup][/b]And the disciples going, did as Jesus commanded them. [b][sup]7[/sup][/b]And they brought the ass and the colt, and laid their garments upon them, and made him sit thereon. [b][sup]8[/sup][/b]And a very great multitude spread their garments in the way: and others cut boughs from the trees, and strewed them in the way: [b][sup]9[/sup][/b]And the multitudes that went before and that followed, cried, saying: Hosanna to the son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord: Hosanna in the highest.[b][sup]10[/sup][/b]And when he was come into Jerusalem, the whole city was moved, saying: Who is this?[b][sup]11[/sup][/b]And the people said: This is Jesus the prophet, from Nazareth of Galilee. [/color][color="#008000"][b][sup]12[/sup][/b]And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the money changers, and the chairs of them that sold doves: [b][sup]13[/sup][/b]And he saith to them: It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but you have made it a den of thieves.[/color][/font][color="#008000"] [/color]–[font="Times New Roman"][b][u][sup]18[/sup][/u][/b][b][u][color="#ff0000"]And in the morning, returning into the city, he was hungry[/color][/u][/b].[color="#a0522d"][b][sup]19[/sup][/b]And seeing a certain fig tree by the way side, he came to it, and found nothing on it but leaves only, and he saith to it: May no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And immediately the fig tree withered away. [b][sup]20[/sup][/b]And the disciples seeing it wondered, saying: How is it presently withered away?[/color][/font][/size]

[color="#0000ff"][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]What follows in this next Mark passage are the same three events according to Mark. Mark illustrates the triumphal entry, then the cursing of the fig tree the next day followed by Jesus driving out the money changers from the temple. Mark testimony does not agree with Matthew for the placement of these events. Who is telling the truth inspired by God?[/font][/size]
[/color]
[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]Mark 11 (Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition)
[/font][/size][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"][color="#800080"][b][sup]1[/sup][/b]And when they were drawing near to Jerusalem and to Bethania at the mount of Olives, he sendeth two of his disciples, [b][sup]2[/sup][/b]And saith to them: Go into the village that is over against you, and immediately at your coming in thither, you shall find a colt tied, upon which no man yet hath sat: loose him, and bring him. [b][sup]3[/sup][/b]And if any man shall say to you, What are you doing? say ye that the Lord hath need of him: and immediately he will let him come hither. [b][sup]4[/sup][/b]And going their way, they found the colt tied before the gate without, in the meeting of two ways: and they loose him.[b][sup]5[/sup][/b]And some of them that stood there, said to them: What do you loosing the colt? [b][sup]6[/sup][/b]Who said to them as Jesus had commanded them; and they let him go with them. [b][sup]7[/sup][/b]And they brought the colt to Jesus; and they lay their garments on him, and he sat upon him. [b][sup]8[/sup][/b]And many spread their garments in the way: and others cut down boughs from the trees, and strewed them in the way. [b][sup]9[/sup][/b]And they that went before and they that followed, cried, saying: Hosanna, blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. [b][sup]10[/sup][/b]Blessed be the kingdom of Our Father David that cometh: Hosanna in the highest. [b][sup]11[/sup][/b]And he entered into Jerusalem, into the temple: and having viewed all things round about, when now the eventide was come, he went out to Bethania with the twelve.[/color] [u][sup]12[/sup][color="#ff0000"]And the next day[/color][/u][color="#ff0000"] [/color][color="#a0522d"]when they came out from Bethania, he was hungry. [b][sup]13[/sup][/b]And when he had seen afar off a fig tree having leaves, he came if perhaps he might find any thing on it. And when he was come to it, he found nothing but leaves. For it was not the time for figs. [b][sup]14[/sup][/b]And answering he said to it: May no man hereafter eat fruit of thee any more for ever. And his disciples heard it.[/color] [color="#006400"][b][sup]15[/sup][/b]And they came to Jerusalem. And when he was entered into the temple, he began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the chairs of them that sold doves. [b][sup]16[/sup][/b]And he suffered not that any man should carry a vessel through the temple;[/color][/font][/size]

[color="#0000ff"][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]The book of Matthew presents Jesus driving out the money changers from the temple on the same day as the Triumphal entry. According to Catholic tradition this would be 9 Nissan, if Jesus according to John was anointed in Bethany 6 days before the Passover (8 Nissan) and the triumphal entry occurred the next day (9 Nissan) according to the book of John. [/font][/size][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]The gospel of Mark clearly illustrates Jesus driving out the money changers (10 Nissan) the day after the Triumphal entry (9 Nissan according to Catholic Tradition). [/font][/size][/color]

[color="#0000ff"][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]Mark illustrates Jesus cursing the fig tree the same day as Jesus driving out the money changers (10 Nissan if Catholic tradition is correct that Jesus triumphal entry occurred on 9 Nissan). [/font][/size]

[/color][color="#0000ff"][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]Matthew illustrates Jesus cursing the fig tree the day after Jesus drove out the money changers and Mark claims Jesus cursed the Fig tree the same day as Jesus driving out the money Changers. Who is telling the truth inspired by God so we can eliminate the false uninspired testimony all found in Catholic Bible doctrine?[/font][/size]
[/color]
[color="#0000ff"][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]Luke appears to agree with Matthew that Jesus drove out the money changers on the same day as the triumphal entry. So based on [color="#ff0000"]basic critical thinking skills [/color]and the baseline of truth we established based on a single event being illustrated on the day it actually occurred in order for it to be truth; which of these gospels need to go into the trash? Which Gospel is telling the truth for this one time single event where Jesus drove out the money changers? Which gospel is telling the truth regarding when the fig tree was cursed? Which gospel is telling the truth regarding when the Triumphal entry occurred?[/font][/size]
[/color]
[color="#0000ff"][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]You'll find all these same issues present in the NAB bible version which I'm told by some Catholics is the truth of scripture (written recordings of true words that proceeded from the mouth of God). Did this confusion proceed from the mouth of God as it is currently recorded in the Catholic bible versions?[/font][/size]
[/color]
[color="#0000ff"][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]I know the event of Jesus driving out the money changers and animals from the temple occurred on 13 Nissan the day before Jesus was crucified. I also know that the anointing in Bethany occurred on the Evening of the Sabbath before the Passover and the triumphal entry occurred the very next morning (both events on Ten Nissan). The first part of the cursing of the fig tree event occurred on 11 Nissan and the result of the fig tree curse was revealed on 12 Nissan. [/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]This is what God told me and was able to prove to me by illustrating prophecy fulfillment from Historical writings. Did God tell a lie to me by illustrating prophecy fulfillment or are the bible gospels all telling a lie by illustrating confusion for these events?[/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]Is God the author of Confusion? Men claim the bible gospels were authored by inspiration of God yet they clearly present confusion for these events. Who is telling the truth when it can be found in your bible that God is not the author of confusion 1 corithians 14:33. Or are men simply lying when they claim Catholic doctrine (4 bible gospels) are inspired by God?[/font][/size][/color][/color]

[color="#0000ff"]With issues such as this presented in Catholic Doctrine, What leg to do you have to stand on when Claiming I am telling a lie when I can clearly illustrate that Jesus died on a Wednesday preparation day according to the Laws of Moses and spirit of Prophecy?

Feel free to answer my first question if you wish. I'm simply illustrating the truth regarding the confusion Catholic Bible doctrine presents for these events.

For all others wanting to know truth according to the Law and testimony (spirit of Prophecy), take the time to view the link if truth is important to you.

[url="http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection%20for%20catholics.pdf"]http://www.thedeatha...20catholics.pdf[/url]

God says the truth will set you free! Seeing how I used Douey Rheimes. Am I now making my point clear? Or did I use spurious false documents to make a truthful point?

God Bless[/color]

Edited April 14, 2010 by todd_vetter33

[CatherineM]

Todd-Have you ever thought about Zoroastrianism? You might like that.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='13 April 2010 - 06:58 PM' timestamp='1271203135' post='2092818']
so are you saying it's Erroneous for a single one time event to occur on more than one day? Or are you saying that a one time single event can occur on more than one day and still be truth?
[/quote]
Logic fail. That's a premise, not a conclusion.

[Tridenteen]

JMJ
Why is this sounding like a Dan Brown novel? Jesus died on a Friday. It has always been that way, until all these odd sects came to life. Heck, the apostles were in the same town, they knew what day he died, and don't you think they passed it down, todd? Please tell me you believe Jesus was born Dec 25...[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/sadder.gif[/img]

[todd_vetter33]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='13 April 2010 - 09:41 PM' timestamp='1271212885' post='2092932']
Logic fail. That's a premise, not a conclusion.
[/quote]


So define the conclusion in truth from God with simple logic.

Edited April 14, 2010 by todd_vetter33

[todd_vetter33]

[quote name='Tridenteen' date='13 April 2010 - 09:45 PM' timestamp='1271213102' post='2092933']
JMJ
Why is this sounding like a Dan Brown novel? Jesus died on a Friday. It has always been that way, until all these odd sects came to life. Heck, the apostles were in the same town, they knew what day he died, and don't you think they passed it down, todd? Please tell me you believe Jesus was born Dec 25...[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/sadder.gif[/img]
[/quote]


Jesus was born according to the flesh on the first day of the Feast of tabernacles. How else did he fulfill all things in the Laws concerning him? Your still assuming the 4 bible gospels were written in their current form by the pen of actual apostles of Jesus.

The third century bishop claims his Catholic didascalia was written by the pen of Matthew himself. Yet his view is not consistant with the view presented by the Gospel attributed to Matthew as it appears after the 4th century councils. He claims the Anointing in Bethany occured on Ten Nissan where the book of Matthew currently illustrates this event on 12 nissan.

The apostles of Jesus were born again according to the spirit (in spirit and in truth). They would not have recorded the confusion your bible gospels currently portray.

Edited April 14, 2010 by todd_vetter33

[Tridenteen]

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='13 April 2010 - 09:49 PM' timestamp='1271213392' post='2092937']
Jesus was born according to the flesh on the first day of the Feast of tabernacles. How else did he fulfill all things in the Laws concerning him?
[/quote]


JMJ
Ok, so if I look into Church theology of the Catholic Church, Orthodox, Byzantine, Lutherine, and Anglican Churches, will they verify your statement?

[todd_vetter33]

[quote name='Tridenteen' date='13 April 2010 - 09:53 PM' timestamp='1271213606' post='2092939']
JMJ
Ok, so if I look into Church theology of the Catholic Church, Orthodox, Byzantine, Lutherine, and Anglican Churches, will they verify your statement?
[/quote]

That depends on if they value a tradition of lies verses the truth of the Law that Jesus fulfilled.


[url="http://www.hol.com/~mikesch/sukkoth.htm"]http://www.hol.com/~mikesch/sukkoth.htm[/url]

Here is a link you will find interesting.

[Tridenteen]

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='13 April 2010 - 09:58 PM' timestamp='1271213916' post='2092944']
That depends on if they value a tradition of lies verses the truth of the Law that Jesus fulfilled.


[url="http://www.hol.com/~mikesch/sukkoth.htm"]http://www.hol.com/~...sch/sukkoth.htm[/url]

Here is a link you will find interesting.
[/quote]


JMJ
And where do we find out about this truth? Do we have to wait for it to be revealed by people like you? It seems to me, and I am just a teenaged nanny, that the Catholic Church makes accessing all the truths of the Law that Jesus revealed a bit more accesible for the average non enlightened person.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='13 April 2010 - 09:48 PM' timestamp='1271213288' post='2092936']
So define the conclusion in truth from God with simple logic.
[/quote]
Jesus died when we say He died.