Hussain Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 (edited) It ranges from life imprisonment, to punishment equal to that of adultery. Either way, as Pomak stated, you will need witnesses who have seen the act take place. Edited December 12, 2009 by Hussain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 [quote name='Hussain' date='12 December 2009 - 02:45 AM' timestamp='1260603933' post='2018986'] It ranges from life imprisonment, to punishment equal to that of adultery. Either way, as Pomak stated, you will need witnesses who have seen the act take place. [/quote] Just to clarify, an individual who is caught participating in homosexual relations - and is found guilty after a proper trial (i.e. the four witnesses) - will be sentenced to life imprisonment. Can you please explain why such an extreme punishment is given? Also, can you please explain "punishment equal to that of adultery" - what kind of punishment is this? Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 (edited) [quote name='OraProMe' date='12 December 2009 - 12:28 AM' timestamp='1260599326' post='2018921']I do have a question for our Muslim guests though! In Christianty there is a tradition of scriptural interpretation (google exegesis and hermeneutics) by which some things are understood in a metaphorical sense, for example [b]many/most[/b] Catholics do not believe the universe was created in one week as recounted in the book of Genesis. Is there a similar system of interpretation in Islam? [/quote] Fixed it. Carry on Edited December 12, 2009 by goldenchild17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Also what is the rationale behind condeming homosexuality in Islam? In Catholicism it ties into the procreative nature of sex. What's the logic in Islam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 (edited) [quote name='OraProMe' date='12 December 2009 - 03:12 AM' timestamp='1260605524' post='2018993'] Also what is the rationale behind condeming homosexuality in Islam? In Catholicism it ties into the procreative nature of sex. What's the logic in Islam? [/quote] Good question. I would take it further though and say "what is the rationale behind the criminality of homosexual relations?" Edited December 12, 2009 by HisChildForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 (edited) [quote name='HisChildForever' date='12 December 2009 - 02:49 AM' timestamp='1260604144' post='2018988'] Just to clarify, an individual who is caught participating in homosexual relations - and is found guilty after a proper trial (i.e. the four witnesses) - will be sentenced to life imprisonment. Can you please explain why such an extreme punishment is given? Also, can you please explain "punishment equal to that of adultery" - what kind of punishment is this? Thank you. [/quote] I am going to bed now, but I would like for these questions to be addressed. Thank you. Again to clarify, Islam teaches that individuals caught having homosexual relations can be sentenced to life imprisonment - or they will be sentenced to "punishment equal to that of adultery" which our Muslim posters have yet to clarify. Edited December 12, 2009 by HisChildForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extempers Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 These are all issues addressed directly on Maniac Muslim on NUMEROUS threads. I suggest taking the discussion there or reading those topics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 [quote name='extempers' date='12 December 2009 - 04:29 AM' timestamp='1260610142' post='2019003'] These are all issues addressed directly on Maniac Muslim on NUMEROUS threads. I suggest taking the discussion there or reading those topics. [/quote] Why would I receive satisfactory answers from you on that forum, but not on this forum? How do I know my questions would not be avoided, like the way they are being avoided right now? You came here to share your faith and beliefs; I am perplexed as to why you are hesitating to do so in this thread. I have posed some very basic questions that only require simple answers. I am sure they would take less than 2 minutes to answer. At this point there are two sets of questions that have yet to be answered. I will repost them here. [b]I would like our Muslim posters to answer the following questions. The answers can be as simple as possible. 1. What does Islam say about homosexuals and homosexual relations? 2. Why are homosexual relations considered "criminal" under Islamic law? 3. When a homosexual is "convicted" of having committed homosexual relations, what punishment does he or she receive? 4. As a follow-up to question #3, why is a homosexual deserving of such punishment [insert the answer to #3 here]? [/b] As well as [b]Just to clarify, an individual who is caught participating in homosexual relations - and is found guilty after a proper trial (i.e. the four witnesses) - will be sentenced to life imprisonment. Can you please explain why such an extreme punishment is given? Also, can you please explain "punishment equal to that of adultery" - what kind of punishment is this? Thank you. [/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Pomak' date='12 December 2009 - 02:16 AM' timestamp='1260602161' post='2018965'] No, if something was divine back then then it is right today. A friend has a saying, "true religion seeks to conform the 21st century to it, and false religion seeks to conform to the 21st century". In order to punish someone to the fullest extent to the law you need 4 witnesses. Otherwise its up to the judge to decided if he will let you go or give you a smaller punishment. In modern language its a burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt on the party that seeks to bring the charges. [/quote] [quote name='Pomak' date='12 December 2009 - 02:21 AM' timestamp='1260602485' post='2018969'] Yes it goes back to the prophet saws. As for today, some scholars claim that in rape cases semen samples or videos can be considered equal to 4 witnesses. (or at a minimum equal to one witness each) [/quote] You guys act like its impossible to find 4 witnesses to punish someone of these crimes. Yet it happens all the time. Isn't is also true you only need 2 witnesses to convict someone of theft? Of course the punishment for theft is amputation. Who can be a witness? Who counts as a full witness? I have heard that only Muslim men count as a full witness, Muslim women count as 1/2 a witness, and non-muslims don't count at all. You say that some scholars claim that samples or videos can be equal to one witness. The problem is that is some scholars and not the actual courts. As I understand it, courts do not look at forensic evidence at all. All you need is 4 witnesses. Also as I understand it, there is no right to cross examine the witness, or test their credibility in any way. Edited December 12, 2009 by rkwright Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='12 December 2009 - 12:29 PM' timestamp='1260638973' post='2019150'] [b]Just to clarify, an individual who is caught participating in homosexual relations - and is found guilty after a proper trial (i.e. the four witnesses) - will be sentenced to life imprisonment. Can you please explain why such an extreme punishment is given? Also, can you please explain "punishment equal to that of adultery" - what kind of punishment is this? Thank you. [/b] [/quote] Really they get life imprisonment? Is that before or after the 100 lashes that Sura 24:2 requires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 Since my questions have remained largely unanswered - and when answered, given vague responses, I found an interesting piece of information off of a Muslim website. The website is called "Mission Islam" and you can read the entire section here: http://www.missionislam.com/knowledge/homosexuality.htm [quote] Treatment of homosexuals within Islam: According to a pamphlet produced by Al-Fatiha, there is a consensus among Islamic scholars that all humans are naturally heterosexual. 5 Homosexuality is seen by scholars to be a sinful and perverted deviation from the norm. All Islamic schools of thought and jurisprudence consider gay acts to be unlawful. They differ in terms of penalty: The Hanafite school (currently seen mainly in South and Eastern Asia) teaches that no physical punishment is warranted. The Hanabalites, (widely followed in the Arab world) teach that severe punishment is warranted. The Sha'fi school of thought (also seen in the Arab world) requires a minimum of 4 adult male witnesses before a person can be found guilty of a homosexual act. [b][u]Al-Fatiha estimates that 4,000 homosexuals have been executed in Iran since their revolution in 1979. 10 public executions of homosexuals have been performed in Afghanistan by the Taliban army.[/b][/u] [/quote] In Iran, since 1979, 4,000 homosexuals have been [b]EXECUTED[/b] for being caught in homosexual relations. There have been 10 [b]PUBLIC EXECUTIONS[/b] of homosexuals in Afghanistan by the Taliban. Apparently homosexual relations are "criminal" and therefore deserving of the death penalty. (Please note how vague this section was - it does not explain the method of execution, which could have been very inhumane.) Why such an extreme sentence? Discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 [quote name='rkwright' date='12 December 2009 - 12:57 PM' timestamp='1260640662' post='2019174'] Really they get life imprisonment? Is that before or after the 100 lashes that Sura 24:2 requires? [/quote] I am certain our Muslim posters can answer that for you. Whether they DO answer it, though, is another matter entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 To our Muslim posters, Please explain how the punishments given to homosexuals (i.e. life imprisonment and, in particular, a death sentence) is reconciled with the claim that Islam is a religion of peace. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='12 December 2009 - 01:02 PM' timestamp='1260640958' post='2019177'] To our Muslim posters, Please explain how the punishments given to homosexuals (i.e. life imprisonment and, in particular, a death sentence) is reconciled with the claim that Islam is a religion of peace. Thank you. [/quote] We find this in the Mosaic Law: "If any one lie with a man as with a woman, both have committed an abomination, let them be put to death: their blood be upon them." (Leviticus 20:13) Just sayin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' date='12 December 2009 - 11:10 AM' timestamp='1260641446' post='2019181'] We find this in the Mosaic Law: "If any one lie with a man as with a woman, both have committed an abomination, let them be put to death: their blood be upon them." (Leviticus 20:13) Just sayin'. [/quote] It is also found in the ancient Roman civil code - although it was rarely enforced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now