Resurrexi Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='12 December 2009 - 01:12 PM' timestamp='1260641547' post='2019183'] It is also found in the ancient Roman civil code - although it was rarely enforced. [/quote] I'm just wondering, are you talking about Justinian's [i]Corpus Iuris Civilis[/i] or different code? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' date='12 December 2009 - 01:10 PM' timestamp='1260641446' post='2019181'] We find this in the Mosaic Law: "If any one lie with a man as with a woman, both have committed an abomination, let them be put to death: their blood be upon them." (Leviticus 20:13) Just sayin'. [/quote] The Old Covenant has been replaced by the New Covenant. Jesus Christ prevented an adulteress from being stoned. He would certainly not approve of individuals today killing homosexuals - for having homosexual relations. Now stop taking the focus off Islam. Just sayin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 (edited) [quote name='HisChildForever' date='12 December 2009 - 01:02 PM' timestamp='1260640958' post='2019177'] Please explain how the punishments given to homosexuals (i.e. life imprisonment and, in particular, a death sentence) is reconciled with the claim that Islam is a religion of peace. [/quote] Just so no one can accuse me of skewing things, I'll quote from a popular Muslim QA site, Islam-qa.com. The complete article can be found here: [url="http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/38622/homosexuality"]Punishment for homosexuals[/url] [quote]The Sahaabah [color="#0000FF"](=companions of Muhammad)[/color] were unanimously agreed on the execution of homosexuals, but they differed as to how they were to be executed. Some of them were of the view that they should be burned with fire, which was the view of ‘Ali (may Allaah be pleased with him) and also of Abu Bakr (may Allaah be pleased with him), as we shall see below. And some of them thought that they should be thrown down from a high place then have stones thrown at them. This was the view of Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him). Some of them thought that they should be stoned to death, which was narrated from both ‘Ali and Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with them).[/quote] Ali and Abu Bakr are like the Sts John and Peter of Christianity... just so we can put things in perspective. Edited December 12, 2009 by mortify Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='12 December 2009 - 01:15 PM' timestamp='1260641700' post='2019185'] The Old Covenant has been replaced by the New Covenant. [/quote] I am aware that "Redemptoris morte, Legi Veteri abolitae Novum Testamentum successit"*--"by the death of the Redemer, the New Testament tok the place of the Old Law that had been abolished." *Pope Pius XII, [i]Mystici Corporis Christi[/i], 29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 (edited) Thank you for clarifying, Mortify. We can now state that if a homosexual is caught in the midst of homosexual relations, is convicted in a proper trial (i.e. the proper four witnesses), the homosexual can be sentenced to any of the following: - Life imprisonment - Death by being lit on fire - Death by being stoned This is currently taking place in the year 2009. To quote Hussain, who said on page 2, post #22, [b]"Islam is for all times and places, a universal religion. Its teachings are absolute, what was made halal (permissible) by Allah remains as such, and what was made haram (prohibited) also remains as such."[/b] How is Islam the religion of peace, then? Explain. Edited December 12, 2009 by HisChildForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Resurrexi' date='12 December 2009 - 11:13 AM' timestamp='1260641614' post='2019184'] I'm just wondering, are you talking about Justinian's [i]Corpus Iuris Civilis[/i] or different code? [/quote] No, I am talking about the code that dates back to the Republic. Justinian's code is a revision of that code, which was influenced by Christian doctrine to a [i]certain degree[/i]. Justinian's reform includes novels that exhort repentance and penitence by those who commit the sin of sodom. It is important to remember that civil society in the Christian world has always had its own law, while the Church has her canons. Edited December 12, 2009 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='12 December 2009 - 01:26 PM' timestamp='1260642376' post='2019192'] the homosexual can be sentenced to any of the following: - Life imprisonment - Death by being lit on fire - Death by being stoned [/quote] Just curious, where do you get life imprisonment from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Laila Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Homosexuality is seen as an abomination. Something not natural. HFC, if you read the article, it also explains why the harsh punishment must be taken place. It is something not seen as normal. If everyone becomes homosexual, it is going to be tougher to reproduce. That is why it is seen as an abomination. As muslims, we acknowledge that we aren't perfect. We may have a tendency to commit a sin. But the test for us is to refrain from it. If we do fail, we are encouraged to hide it, and ask for forgiveness to Allah (swt). So let me talk about stealing. Lets say for example, Adam has homosexual tendencies. Now if he refrains from commiting homosexual acts in fear of displeasing Allah (swt), then he will get a lot of reward for it. If he is weak and fails to do so, he is encouraged to hide his sins from people and repent. As you guys have talked about this hadith already, when a woman came to Muhammad (saws), he ignored her several times and wanted her to hide her sins. But when she kept coming back, insisting that she has committed the sin, and insisted that she wants to be cleared of her sins by taking the punishment, he finally gave it to her. The wisdom behind hiding one's sin is so the sin does not become prevalent in society. Because when one person does a sin, and then comes out and talks about it to other people, then other people might think, hey he/she did it, so maybe its not that bad. Sins should be hidden, and keep it between only the person and Allah (swt). Allah (swt) is most merciful, he can forgive you for anything, as long as you repent. If you make it public, then according to islamic ruling, you must also take the punishment. This is in order to show people the graveness of the sin. If a sinner commits a sin, makes it public knowledge, and isn't punished, what messege does that send to others in the society? The punishment is given so it lessens the chance of it becoming widespread in the society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 [quote name='mortify' date='12 December 2009 - 01:39 PM' timestamp='1260643181' post='2019203'] Just curious, where do you get life imprisonment from? [/quote] Hussain, post #31: [b]"It ranges from life imprisonment, to punishment equal to that of adultery. Either way, as Pomak stated, you will need witnesses who have seen the act take place."[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Laila' date='12 December 2009 - 11:43 AM' timestamp='1260643384' post='2019206'] Homosexuality is seen as an abomination. Something not natural. . . . [/quote] I agree. Homosexual desires are not natural, but sadly the Islamic religious authority in the video posted by Pomak seems to think that they are "natural." Here is my earlier post on the subject, which includes a link to the video: [quote name='Apotheoun' date='12 December 2009 - 12:34 AM' timestamp='1260603275' post='2018980'] [quote name='Pomak' date='11 December 2009 - 11:52 PM' timestamp='1260600777' post='2018936'] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CA2_kaqAOQU[/media] [/quote] That was an interesting talk, thank you for posting it. I can agree with much of what the man says, although I would not be able to assent to his comments about homosexual desires being "natural," but giving the man the benefit of the doubt . . . perhaps he was not being as precise as he should have been. [/quote] Edited December 12, 2009 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Laila Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 If he had said it was natural, that isn't the dominant beliefs among muslims. I think he failed to express himself correctly. It is not natural. But islam does acknowledge, that human being are prone to commit sins. That is natural i guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Laila' date='12 December 2009 - 01:43 PM' timestamp='1260643384' post='2019206'] If you make it public, then according to islamic ruling, you must also take the punishment. This is in order to show people the graveness of the sin. If a sinner commits a sin, makes it public knowledge, and isn't punished, what messege does that send to others in the society? The punishment is given so it lessens the chance of it becoming widespread in the society. [/quote] Why not seek to help the homosexual - to find him or her support groups? Why not encourage the homosexual to attend more prayer services? Why not love the homosexual, and help them out of charity? The Islamic law does not give the homosexual the opportunity to truly repent of his or her grave sin. The solution to homosexual relations is to murder the homosexual? (Edit: the above is all under the assumption that the homosexual has been "caught in the act.") Edited December 12, 2009 by HisChildForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 [quote name='Laila' date='12 December 2009 - 11:50 AM' timestamp='1260643853' post='2019220'] I think he failed to express himself correctly. [/quote] I hope you are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Laila Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 I am hoping to come back to this thread later. I apologize as this is taking too much of my time, and I must go and study for my finals. Sigh, the pain of being a student. SubhanAllah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 [quote name='Laila' date='12 December 2009 - 02:43 PM' timestamp='1260643384' post='2019206'] If you make it public, then according to islamic ruling, you must also take the punishment. This is in order to show people the graveness of the sin. If a sinner commits a sin, makes it public knowledge, and isn't punished, what messege does that send to others in the society? [/quote] Maybe that muslims are merciful, as they claim Allah is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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