The Ppc

[she_who_is_not]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='08 August 2010 - 08:28 PM' timestamp='1281313734' post='2154364']
she_who_is_not has already expressed interest in a guesthouse, so perhaps the two of you can work together. It probably will not be attached to the monastery however, because some of our Sisters will wish to be cloistered, so it will be just outside the cloister walls.

Definitely perpetual adoration in the Chapel (which will be open to the public, but with a Sister's chapel attached). We have yet to come up with a floor plan for the chapel. All we know is that it will have a Viking Boat hanging from the ceiling, on request of Hilde, because in Norway (where she lives), churches have Viking Boats hanging from the ceiling. It will be a beautiful Viking Boat, however, and will make our chapel totally unique (at least, outside Norway).

Here is the link to the post from she_who_is_not. We will need more than one Sister for the retreat house anyway, and you can contribute ideas of your own. Keep reading past her post, because I had some additional ideas.

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=106624&st=230"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=106624&st=230[/url]
[/quote]

I'd love to have another sister in the guesthouse!

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='09 August 2010 - 08:34 AM' timestamp='1281360893' post='2154592']
[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/yahoo.gif[/img]

I believe I might have suggested hobbit hole hermitages. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif[/img] [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/woot.gif[/img] [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/love.gif[/img]

Exciiiiiting!
[/quote]

I love the hobbit hole hermitages--but I like treehouses, too. We can have both! And simple, but cozy regular hermitages for those with that preference.

But, we'll also have cells for everyone, too, in the main monastery, so that in really bad weather, we can make sure that everyone is safe, and has heat/AC and food. (Athough a hermitage in winter, with unbroken snow, except for the prints of deer and other winter animals, would be gorgeous and quiet!) When I say bad weather, I don't mean snow per se, I mean LOTS of snow or ice that makes walking danagerous, or dangerous cold, or high winds, or loss of power, extremely hot temperatures, etc. etc. We'll have a generator in the monastery and guesthouse so there is always electricity and heat/AC. Each cell will have its own thermostat, so that each Sister can pick a temperature where she is comfortable. Or, if she wants to do penance in cold or hot weather, and go without heat/AC etc, she has that choice, too, but not to the detriment of her health and safety.

In some ways, life in our monastery will be MORE difficult, because it will be designed to accomodate Sisters of various charisms, ages, and health conditions. The monastery WILL have rules, if only to help a group of very different women get along in peace and love. But, much of the discipline will have to come from the Sister herself (with the advice of the Novice Mistress, the Superior, etc.) It's much more difficult to give up dessert if everyone around you is eating dessert, or to get up at 4:30 am when most other Sisters get up at 5:30 am or even later. But, what constitutes penance, giving up our own wants for the Lord and the community, is different for every Sister. For example, for me, walking up a long flight of stairs would be a huge penance, and actually would be bad for my health, so I will take the elevator, while most other Sisters take the stairs. My body has almost no interior temperature control, so I have to control the temperature outside my body, and particularly avoid heat that may feel like nothing to others. However, it would not hurt my health a bit to give up sweets sometimes (in fact, that would help), or to spend an hour when I am feeling unusually healthy in prayer, rather than reading a book or going outside the monastery just for a change.

And, we'll have to learn not to be judgemental if we feel a Sister is not "doing her share" or "living a luxurious life" because those decisions will be between the Sister and God (in consultation with more experienced Sisters). We will have to learn to trust their judgement and God's judgement, and mind our own business. Of course, it is our business if one day we find that no one has made dinner, but the question will be, "What is wrong? How can I help?" rather than, "Those kitchen Sisters are being lazy again." For all we know, their car broke down while they were in town shopping and their cell phone went dead. Hard as it is, "Benefit of the Doubt" will have to become one of our watchwords, because we will be living out our lives in different ways.

Edited August 9, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[lookingforfaith]

I love this post IgnatiusofLoyola!!!!

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

So far, we have accepted anyone who applies to be a welcome member of the PPC. I think this is fine, because whether a woman finds the concept of the PPC attractive is kind of a self-selection process. But, I was thinking that we will have to be honest, and admit that the community will not appeal to (or be the right place) for women who want certain things. Some examples:

--Women who want a heavily penitential and austere community. As I said in my post above, in the PPC, the choice of how austere or penitential a Sister wants to be will be largely her choice, with the advice of Senior Sisters. But, a True Passionist, for example, probably would not be happy. Any member of the PPC has to be able to live with Sisters who have made different choices than she has. So, a Sister who wants a completely closed, strict, 1990 Carmelite community will not be happy.

--In a sense, any woman who wants a "pure" anything may be unhappy. A lot of us have realized that we are interested in multiple spiritualities, and by its nature, the PPC is designed to accomodate that. There will be multiple compromises from the daily life of any long-term, strict, traditional community. So, for example, although we will have the Liturgy of the Hours, and all Sisters will be encouraged to participate, a Sister who disapproves of another Sister who misses some of the prayers due to an active apostolate will not be happy. Similarly, a Sister who wants to be a Missionary of Charity and live and work full-time with the poor is not meant for this community. Our life will not be luxurious, but unless a Sister chooses, we will not be sleeping on wooden palates, and eating mostly rice. But, we will also not be eating "steak and lobster" (unless a donor sends us some) or maybe for VERY special occasions, and then not both, and not a lot of it.

--I think of the community as "semi-contemplative," where prayer (and perpetual adoration) will be extremely important, but having an apostate will be important too, especially for those Sisters who are called to that. So Sisters will need to get used to others who are called to serve the Lord in different ways. The church needs Marys and Marthas--sometimes in the same person.

--A Sister who wants a community where there is complete silence and no recreation will not be happy. Personally, I think it would be good to keep silence as much as possible within the monastery, but recreation will be very important, and there will be times when speaking is necessary, and confined so that it doesn't disturb the silence of others.

--I personally am very academically oriented, and hope that our monastery, although secluded, will also be located near a top-notch university, for those who want advanced degrees or want to teach. However, not everyone is academic, so the whole community will not be that way. A Sister who needs a totally academic environment will be unhappy.

What it boils down to is that any Sister who cannot be flexible, and compromise at least somewhat, will be unhappy. I am not talking about compromising any Orthodox Catholic beliefs. But the community will not reflect purely ANY tradition or practice. We will try to have Latin Masses offered as much as possible, but sometimes Masses will be in English (or even Anglican Use). Sisters will have to be able to live with the fact that some members of the community (namely me, and perhaps others) are not Catholic, but have complete respect for the Catholic church and its traditions. It will be up to each Sister and God to work out what God is calling her to, and it will be different for each of us.

Also, many of us may have health issues. I won't be able to work in the garden or do housework (and you don't want me to cook!). But, I can give talks, I can help the library develop a wonderful collection, even if I can't shelve all the books myself. I will take the elevator when many of you choose to take the stairs. I'm a pretty good singer, so I'd love to be in the choir, but I may not be able to stand all the time. My body can't adjust to less than 10 hours of sleep so I will miss early morning prayers, but will do my best to make it to Mass every day. So, I think and hope I can make a contribution, even if it is less than many of the rest of you make.

The woman who will be happiest will be one who enjoys different types of people, and although she may be attracted mostly to one spirituality, also finds herself attracted to other spiritualities, as well. And, a woman who is able to develop the maturity to develop a relationship with God that is uniquely hers, and not dictated by others, although others will be available for advice and guidance.

For this woman, it will be a place of spiritual peace and rest, a home where she can be herself, and serve God in the unique way he created her and calls her. The habit will represent that we will all be Sisters, but underneath, we will always be unique individuals, in each other's eyes and God's, and ideally the community will use that uniqueness so that all of us together can accomplish things we couldn't alone or with a group who was more uniform. Very idealistic, which is why this will remain a fantasy. But nice. And fun! If we don't find ourselves laughing a lot, there will be something wrong that we will need to fix. We will be very solemn at times. But, silly, too, in the right time and place.

[lookingforfaith]

Amen sistah!

[JTheresa]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='10 August 2010 - 05:00 PM' timestamp='1281474000' post='2155453']

--I think of the community as "semi-contemplative," where prayer [color="#800080"](and perpetual adoration)[/color] will be extremely important, but having an apostate will be important too, especially for those Sisters who are called to that. So Sisters will need to get used to others who are called to serve the Lord in different ways. The church needs Marys and Marthas--sometimes in the same person.

...

For this woman, it will be a place of spiritual peace and rest, a home where she can be herself, and serve God in the unique way he created her and calls her. The habit will represent that we will all be Sisters, but underneath, we will always be unique individuals, in each other's eyes and God's, and ideally the community will use that uniqueness so that all of us together can accomplish things we couldn't alone or with a group who was more uniform. Very idealistic, which is why this will remain a fantasy. But nice. And fun[color="#800080"]! If we don't find ourselves laughing a lot, there will be something wrong that we will need to fix.[/color] We will be very solemn at times. But, silly, too, in the right time and place.
[/quote]

Great post I of L!!! If we still used points... +1 !!!

([size="1"] I highlighted the parts I like best )[/size]

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

I'm bumping this thread back up, because I think it's fun. As of last night, I am back to being Sister Rosary Bede. I looked at the medals of St. Polycarp and he is ugly. Plus, lately, I have become obsessed with Rosary beads. Not Rosaries. Just Rosary beads. My living room is full of Rosary beads and my cats think it's too messy and have been expressing their disapproval. (It's a long story, but clearly, my choice of names has been made solely on the most serious and holy grounds.) You are not required to have a "silly" name to join the community. Most members have only a "serious" name--some have both. It's up to you.

I've always liked the Venerable Bede, even though he is also normally portrayed as old, but that's because he is Venerable. (If that logic makes sense to you, you may want to put less vodka in your morning orange juice.) And, no, the PPC will not support or condone such habits--at least on a regular basis. Someone who knows more about saints will need to find one for whom the most appropriate celebration would be a "brunch" complete with mimosas (that's OJ and champagne).

Many plans have been made for the community, but there are lots of things that have yet to be worked out, and we welcome any Phemale Phatmasser who wishes to join--single or married, Catholic or not Catholic. (Males are welcome to visit for cards and meals, but may not be full members.)

For those who are new to this: PPC stands for Phemale Phatmass Community.

[Tridenteen]

JMJ
How about Sr.Maryia Ivana Partti?

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='Tridenteen' timestamp='1282091379' post='2159279']
JMJ
How about Sr.Maryia Ivana Partti?
[/quote]

That's excellent! Although, I admit, I had to read through it a couple of times before I understood it.

I kept getting hung up on "Ivana Partti" being a real person like Ivana Trump.

[morostheos]

oooh, I would like to join! Now I just have to think of a name.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='morostheos' timestamp='1282093911' post='2159296']
oooh, I would like to join! Now I just have to think of a name.
[/quote]

Yes, we'd love to have you join us. Pick a name you'd love to have or one you just think is fun. Either way, welcome!

[morostheos]

Ok, I'd like to be Sr. Fructus Julius.

As a Franciscan at heart, I would like to join those who are in the tree-houses. As a scientist I can make sure the trees surrounding our community stay healthy as well as all of the wildlife that live around us. I'd also like to help out with the garden!

[dominicansoul]

I like to collect things and never throw things away...

I'll be "Sr. Accumulata, O.P."

[JTheresa]

[quote name='Tridenteen' timestamp='1282091379' post='2159279']
JMJ
How about Sr.Maryia Ivana Partti?
[/quote]
okay srsly, reading "Ivana Partti" I thought to myself "I wanna party" with a really thick accent.

[Tridenteen]

[quote name='JTheresa' timestamp='1282102499' post='2159359']
okay srsly, reading "Ivana Partti" I thought to myself "I wanna party" with a really thick accent.
[/quote]


JMJ
YES!!!

That's it exactly!

[laetitia crucis]

I think as members of the PPC, we should all use this emoticon: [IMG]http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy305/laetitia_crucis/Random/nunemoticon.gif[/IMG]

Please, feel free to use that very image URL - it's from my photobucket account. SPREAD THE EMOTICON ALL THROUGH PHATMASS!!!!

:

March on, my dear Sisters!!!!

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

We've talked back and forth on the PPC thread about whether it is better to have a veil that covers the hair or shows a little hair.

Personally, I'm in favor of what I call a "simpler" veil, that is, a veil without a wimple etc. because it seems less difficult to keep up, more comfortable, and with fewer "parts" to clean and iron.

But, the argument against this has been that some PPC Sisters want a veil that doesn't show their hair.

I was on the Summit Dominicans site, and I suddenly realized that, although they wear a "simpler" veil, they wear it so that none of their hair shows. (The very simple postulant veil does show hair, but I think that is different. The Summit Dominicans postulant outfit is not the most flattering (and it has no cape!), but it does look VERY comfortable, as do the habits of the novices and professed nuns.)

When looking through VS today, I also noticed that the Sisters of Reparation novice veil is the same way. It is a "simpler" veil (no wimple) but their hair does not show.

So, perhaps this is a compromise. The PPC Sisters could wear a "simpler" veil, but design it in such a way that no hair shows.

Reactions?

BTW--Personally, I like veils for postulants, too, as we've already discussed, even if they are very simple and not long. And capes! Actually, most PPC Sisters seem to also want to also wear capes as novices and professed Sisters, which would be lovely. Personally, I may not wear a cape, a bit too fussy for me, and I'd be constantly getting the cape sleeves into my food, even with my official PPC blue refectory apron. For myself, I'm leaning toward the habit of the Summit Dominican novices, except with a PPC blue scapular, to show that I am a full member of the community, yet different, since I will not be making the vows of a professed Sister.

Random note: For Vee8, and others who may want to consider being fully cloistered, we would need to work out the details for this, and how we could fit it in with the fact that most of the PPC community will be semi-cloistered or active. Or, since it won't be a REAL Carmel, could you live with being semi-cloistered? That is, being essentially cloistered, but perhaps without as much "hiddenness" as the Carmels. Because the PPC rules will be a compromise, the rules would have a hard time meeting all the requirements for papal or community enclosure, while still accomodating those Sisters who want to be semi-cloistered or active. But, certainly, if a Sister preferred never to be photographed, to not meet the public without a barrier, and to be "hidden" during Mass, those things could be accomodated easily. However, with its "compromises" it would be very difficult for the PPC to meet either the 1990 or 1991 rules of the Carmelites. Similar thoughts for those whose primary spirituality is another cloistered Order, although many cloistered Orders do not seem to be quite as "hidden" as the Carmelites.

[color="#000080"][b]If any of you have wondered what I've meant by "PPC blue" it would be a color very similar to this text, although maybe not exactly the same. This color is a compromise, and is meant to honor Mary, and also to be somewhat cheerful. We're still thinking a white habit, with a white cape, and a PPC blue scapular. Novices would wear a white veil Fully professed sisters would continue to wear a white habit and white veil (for purity, and also as an expression that we are "perpetual novices"--always learning), but they would have a PPC blue band next to the face. Postulant outfits have not been decided on.
Personally, I would have preferred habits of [color="#ffff00"]this color [/color]or [color="#00ffff"]this color[/color], but I was outvoted. [/b][/color]

[linnie]

I agree with the "simple" veil. Wimples look so very uncomfortable. I'd feel like I was choking all the time. Capes look lovely, maybe we could treat them with a stain retardant for those of us who are rather klutzy

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1281336948' post='2154547']
My apologies for dropping in late to this thread. At some point, I believe someone suggested hobbit hole hermitages? If not, consider them suggested! And if there are already pictures in the thread...my sincere apologies.

[/quote]

MithLuin--I LOVE the pictures! (I deleted them from my quote for space reasons, so anyone who is interested, just look up a few posts in this thread.)

I apologize that I forgot to formally invite you to join us. We would LOVE to have you! In my ignorance, I did not realize you were married, so I wanted to emphasize that married women are welcome as full members of the community. There are at least a couple of other married women (such as Linnie) who are already members of the community.

Since we would not ask or now expect you to desert your husband and children(?) (and I assume that neither you nor your husband would want that anyway), we are planning to have homes for the families of married members just outside the monastery walls, with husbands and children very welcome (although perhaps not inside the cloister/enclosure, except at certain times. We've never had a lot of discussion about what would make the most sense for married members--or what they would prefer).

You, of course, could have a family-size hobbit house (or tree house) if you'd like--or a hermitage for yourself, for those times when you need an escape--or a regular house. Also, as I posted somewhere in an earlier post, although we'd like the monastery to be located somewhere beautiful, quiet, and peaceful, we also don't want to be so far from a decently large city for those Sisters who want an active apostolate. We also want to make sure that spouses have sufficent opportunity to find jobs they like. (Since this is an imaginary, idealistic community--spouses will not only be able to find jobs they like, but jobs they LOVE.)

Also, as I've posted before, many of us are naturally "academic-minded" so one important goal in locating the monastery would be that it would be near a top-notch university, for those of us who wanted to go for further degrees or to teach.

We are far from figuring out exactly where the monastery would be located (and we probably never will), but we've been assuming that the monastery would get at least some snow. Although, since it is an imaginary idealistic monastery, it would not get snow (or bitter cold) for half the year (as it does in Chicago, where I live), but snow in December is always welcome (as long as it's not too much--we're so picky! LOL) Similarly, while the weather would be good in summer, it would not get much above 80 degrees--that's my selfish request. I (and my health) don't handle really hot, humid weather very well. However, unlike most of California (where I grew up) I've found I like having some rain in summer. It keeps things very green and beautiful, and helps water the garden so that we don't have to water as much. It also means that water shortages are less likely. However, I DO miss Redwoods trees. <sigh>

So, if you are interested, feel free to add your own suggestions, preferences, and ideas. We are FAR from having every detail worked out. And, I suspect that some members, such as Sister Cook, whose true joy in life is cooking, and who cooks wonderful meals that are also healthy and not overly expensive or lavish (except on feast days, of course) will remain products of our idealistic imaginations.

Edited August 19, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[Nunsense]

Ok - I finally got around to reading (most of) this thread. How cute!


I don't know if I can join two religious communities at the same time (the Carmelites and the PPC) but I love all the ideas and certainly admire the way everyone has been working together to give the best of everything to everyone!

I'm kewl with the habit, whatever that is, and love the fact that some can be cloistered and others not. And I would love to hear the Gregorian chant, as long as I don't have to ever sing solo! I can only sing when there is someone standing next to me who knows how to keep tune, then I can follow her. I would like to use the Grail Psalter if we are going to do Gregorian - it is almost a necessity really since the LOH isn't designed for it. We could use the UK breviary for the Little Hours if we don't chant these??

For my part, I want to be in the cloister, with lots of time to pray, especially some time alone with Jesus but I am happy to take my turn in the kitchen (if you all take out life insurance first), the garden, the laundry, the HO or any other office that needs doing. I would like to volunteer for Novice Mistress if this office hasn't been taken, but I am also great with computers, love books and animals and can even sew a little, so I think I can be useful.



I want a large, plain Cross in our cell please and lots of white handkerchiefs for all the crying.

I would like my name to be Sister Tear-esita Ecstatica of the Holy Cross please.

So, may I enter???