To Slap Or Not To Slap?

[HisChildForever]

Actually, if a moderator would consider removing the link Terry posted, that would be appreciated. There is a graphic picture of the Holy Father on there that is terribly inappropriate. At the very least, I am warning everyone about it so you are not shocked if or when you see it.

[Guest iam_terry fc]

[quote name='Selah' timestamp='1284071283' post='2171083']
The article says "young man". He could be anywhere from 16 to 25.

And anyhow, it wasn't abuse. He was slapped. We don't even know how hard.

Something tells me the guy will survive.





LOL. Stern is popular! :D
[/quote]

If he was 16 or 25 he would have KO the priest

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='iam_terry fc' timestamp='1284071965' post='2171090']
If he was 16 or 25 he would have KO the priest
[/quote]

According to news sources he did fight and punch back and the priest still kicked his arse.

[Selah]

[quote]If he was 16 or 25 he would have KO the priest [/quote]

Wait, what?


[quote]According to news sources he did fight and punch back and the priest still kicked his arse. [/quote]

Don't mess with super ninja priest man.

Edited September 9, 2010 by Selah

[Guest iam_terry fc]

In the UK all people working with children have to screened by the relevant authorities. Can anyone tell me if priests have to be screened?

[CatherineM]

I'm trying to visualize how I would have reacted if I had seen one of my boys do this. My youngest once got mad during a baseball game when he struck out, and threw his batting helmet, almost hitting a kid. I pulled him out of the game, made him do a lap around the outside of the fence, and some push-ups in front of the dug out. He never did that again. I think public humiliation has its place. I never sat in the corner as a kid. I had a naughty chair that was placed on the front porch. I'm betting that his kid never commits a similar act.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='iam_terry fc' timestamp='1284074025' post='2171108']
In the UK all people working with children have to screened by the relevant authorities. Can anyone tell me if priests have to be screened?
[/quote]

As far as I know yes, they are subject to background checks. Catherine will be able to explain it more thoroughly.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1283895444' post='2169322']
Not to detract from the topic at hand, but just to throw this out there - what would have happened if this was a young woman and not a young man? Do you think the priest would have slapped her?
[/quote]

In East Timor I saw a Salesian priest slap (lightly) a girl. East Timorese students are extremely well behaved and respectful, not hard to see why!

[quote name='Brother Adam' timestamp='1283895292' post='2169319']
Corporal punishment is an acceptable form of discipline in some situations. if the young man knew what he was doing then I would say he got off light.

Withhold not chastisement from a boy; if you beat him with the rod, he will not die. - Proverbs 23:13
[/quote]
Definitely! If a teacher or a priest were to slap a child in Oz, there would be hell to pay. Our judicial system is a farce, children know their rights but not their responsibilities. The result is chaos in our schools, violent crimes and licentiousness.

[quote]I cannot think of a situation where it would be okay for an inferior (layperson) to slap a superior (priest).[/quote]
Ideally violence shouldn't be used but what if a priest behaved badly with a child and you weren't able to stop it by other means? What do you mean by superior? Priests are superior in their Church rank but not in any other way. They are just as human as the rest of us.

[CatherineM]

Priests go through more screening these days than CIA spies. They undergo background checks, fingerprint checks, medical evaluation, and psychological evaluations that I'm surprised anyone can pass. In our diocese, as in most these days, everyone gets fingerprinted and background checks in addition to having to take classes in appropriate conduct. That's from the Archbishop to his secretary to the part time volunteer janitor.

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='iam_terry fc' timestamp='1284074025' post='2171108']
In the UK all people working with children have to screened by the relevant authorities. Can anyone tell me if priests have to be screened?
[/quote]


[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1284075807' post='2171125']
Priests go through more screening these days than CIA spies. They undergo background checks, fingerprint checks, medical evaluation, and psychological evaluations that I'm surprised anyone can pass. In our diocese, as in most these days, everyone gets fingerprinted and background checks in addition to having to take classes in appropriate conduct. That's from the Archbishop to his secretary to the part time volunteer janitor.
[/quote]

I'm not normally one to do this, but....

[Vincent Vega]

Edit: being charitable is not fun. Oh well. A little mortification.

Edited September 10, 2010 by USAirwaysIHS

[Socrates]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1284057626' post='2170947']
Referring to Jesus and the moneychangers is not a good argument. What you have there is a God rebuking people who were defiling His House.

The priest who did the slapping acts, in the sacramental life, as an [i]alter Christus,[/i] but he is not God. So he does not have the authority to do everything that God does. Whether he had the authority in this case, is another question. But you cannot just say "well Jesus did it, therefore ..." It is more complicated than that.[/quote]
It's interesting that such "harsh" acts are commonly condemned for being "un-Christlike," yet when examples of Christ acting "harshly" are raised, we're told we're not supposed to act like Christ in those cases because "we're not Christ."

Rebuking sinners, including blasphemers, is not something unique to Christ's divinity, but something which all of us are called to do when necessary (and plenty of saints have done so).
Admonishing the sinner is one of the seven spiritual works of mercy.

There's no theological reason to only imitate Christ when we deem His behavior sufficiently "meek and mild," but not otherwise.

Certainly the priest, as an [i]alter Christus[/i], and proprietor of the house of God, has the authority to rebuke blasphemers in His house.

[quote]Its also interesting to think about the sin of blasphemy. Why is it so bad? Who does it hurt? Certainly not God. His goodness, glory, majesty, etc. are entirely undiminished by a human being's blaspheming. Blasphemy damages the person who does it, not God. And so when it comes down to correction, the blasphemer really is the person we should be concerned with; the priority, in other words-- him and whomever in the community may be led astray by his sin.[/quote]
Blasphemy is considered the gravest of all sins because it is a direct and deliberate offense against God almighty. No, it doesn't "hurt" God, in the sense of weakening or diminishing Him, yet it is an infinitely sever offense nonetheless, and under the Old Law was punishable by death.

[quote]So, the blasphemer's feelings really do matter a lot. How will he react emotionally to a physical correction? Will it bring home to him the gravity of his sin? Or will it confirm him in his hatred of God and the His representatives? [b]Whether the kid "lives" or not is very much in question[/b]. This slapping incident will no doubt play a definite role in either his salvation or damnation. Undertaking the correction of sin is a serious business, one that probably should not be attempted in the heat of the moment, or in anger.[/quote]
At the very least, the physical correction of slapping will show him that the priest takes his blasphemous actions very seriously, and may at least let him ponder why his blasphemous actions are regarded so seriously.

Worrying that he will be upset emotionally after the slapping is silly, because if he doesn't want people to be "mean" to him, he shouldn't have deliberately insulted what he knows the priest and other believers hold most sacred.
If I were to stroll into a mosque and urinate on a Q'ran and subsequently got the living croutons beat out of me, I'm sure you'd fault my deliberate offense, rather than bemoan those awful Muslims for their insensitivity.

To ignore the blasphemy, or to give only a mild finger-wagging, would give the impression to both the blasphemer, and those in the congregation, that his act of desecration was "no big deal," and would hardly be appropriate to an offense of this magnitude.

This light act of physical chastisement was perfectly appropriate in this case. Christ drove the money-changers from the temple in a moment of righteous anger, and the priest acted in the same righteous anger. Charity does not mean always being a passive pushover.

I wonder if any of those so upset about the priest's actions here would simply stand by idly while their father, mother, or sister were being insulted and spat upon.
We should act no differently when Our Lord and Savior is deliberately insulted.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1284086580' post='2171207']
It's interesting that such "harsh" acts are commonly condemned for being "un-Christlike," yet when examples of Christ acting "harshly" are raised, we're told we're not supposed to act like Christ in those cases because "we're not Christ."

Rebuking sinners, including blasphemers, is not something unique to Christ's divinity, but something which all of us are called to do when necessary (and plenty of saints have done so).
Admonishing the sinner is one of the seven spiritual works of mercy.

There's no theological reason to only imitate Christ when we deem His behavior sufficiently "meek and mild," but not otherwise.

Certainly the priest, as an [i]alter Christus[/i], and proprietor of the house of God, has the authority to rebuke blasphemers in His house.


Blasphemy is considered the gravest of all sins because it is a direct and deliberate offense against God almighty. No, it doesn't "hurt" God, in the sense of weakening or diminishing Him, yet it is an infinitely sever offense nonetheless, and under the Old Law was punishable by death.


At the very least, the physical correction of slapping will show him that the priest takes his blasphemous actions very seriously, and may at least let him ponder why his blasphemous actions are regarded so seriously.

Worrying that he will be upset emotionally after the slapping is silly, because if he doesn't want people to be "mean" to him, he shouldn't have deliberately insulted what he knows the priest and other believers hold most sacred.
If I were to stroll into a mosque and urinate on a Q'ran and subsequently got the living croutons beat out of me, I'm sure you'd fault my deliberate offense, rather than bemoan those awful Muslims for their insensitivity.

To ignore the blasphemy, or to give only a mild finger-wagging, would give the impression to both the blasphemer, and those in the congregation, that his act of desecration was "no big deal," and would hardly be appropriate to an offense of this magnitude.

This light act of physical chastisement was perfectly appropriate in this case. Christ drove the money-changers from the temple in a moment of righteous anger, and the priest acted in the same righteous anger. Charity does not mean always being a passive pushover.

I wonder if any of those so upset about the priest's actions here would simply stand by idly while their father, mother, or sister were being insulted and spat upon.
We should act no differently when Our Lord and Savior is deliberately insulted.
[/quote]

Yeah I agree! There are times when all else fails and we need to stand up and be counted.

You know the thing in this country (Oz) which would stop the violent assaults that are becoming more and more frequent and the irresponsible behaviour of drivers would be to introduce the use of the cane. And not only that, it would save a lot of money and free up prisons. In my school days we got the strap for even minor misdemeanour's. None of us were seriously hurt physically or psychologically, we even joked about it and sometimes baited teachers, but behaviour was most certainly much better than it is now.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Selah' timestamp='1284069589' post='2171066']
image edited
[/quote]
please don't.

[Selah]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1284138057' post='2171419']
please don't.
[/quote]


I don't even remember what I did