Sternhauser Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 [quote name='rkwright' timestamp='1296166112' post='2205290'] Well then I don't see how law enforcement (the state) is formally cooperating in a cartel killing someone in Mexico when they take a dealer off the streets. Their end is not to cause death anywhere else, but to enforce the laws here. [/quote] It's true: such participation is not usually formal cooperation. It is, however, far more proximate material cooperation. On the other hand, because the prohibition enforcement/violence link should be painfully obvious to a rational person, it might very well be bordering on formal, depending on how invincible the ignorance is. ~Sternhauser
Nihil Obstat Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1296166306' post='2205298'] Does that make Fr.'s logic to be it is immoral to receive the Blood of Chirst? [/quote] The logic is there and already laid out. What do you think?
Papist Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1296166357' post='2205301'] The logic is there and already laid out. What do you think? [/quote] I think Fr. makes a good case against the legalization of marijuana regardless of my stance and regardless of any other substance[legal or illegal]. I think it a shame to take away from the article that if alcohol is legal, then so should marijuana and if marijuana is illegal, then alcohol should be, and ignore Fr.'s points. The article is not a marijuana-alcohol comparison. That perhaps could be a seperate thread.
Nihil Obstat Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1296167274' post='2205309'] I think Fr. makes a good case against the legalization of marijuana regardless of my stance and regardless of any other substance[legal or illegal]. I think it a shame to take away from the article that if alcohol is legal, then so should marijuana and if marijuana is illegal, then alcohol should be, and ignore Fr.'s points. The article is not a marijuana-alcohol comparison. That perhaps could be a seperate thread. [/quote] His arguments apply perfectly to alcohol as well as they do to marijuana. Where's the problem with that? It's just transitive logic. Very basic. If X is bad because it alters the mind and can harm the soul, then if Y alters the mind and can harm the soul, then Y is also bad.
Papist Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1296168244' post='2205323'] His arguments apply perfectly to alcohol as well as they do to marijuana. Where's the problem with that? It's just transitive logic. Very basic. If X is bad because it alters the mind and can harm the soul, then if Y alters the mind and can harm the soul, then Y is also bad. [/quote] I am not questioning if the logic is valid or not. But rather Fr.'s points re marijuana.
Papist Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 What's the purpose of smoking marijuana other than the intent to get high?
Nihil Obstat Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1296169381' post='2205345'] I am not questioning if the logic is valid or not. But rather Fr.'s points re marijuana. [/quote] Using the transitive property of his argument you can apply the same points to alcohol. In fact, to not do so is simply blinding yourself willingly to the logical implications.
Nihil Obstat Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1296169585' post='2205350'] What's the purpose of smoking marijuana other than the intent to get high? [/quote] I enjoy the pleasant buzz I get from drinking a couple glasses of The Glenlivet. Would you agree that this is a legitimate pleasure?
Papist Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1296169610' post='2205351'] Using the transitive property of his argument you can apply the same points to alcohol. In fact, to not do so is simply blinding yourself willingly to the logical implications. [/quote] It's a stretch b/c I think it is apples and oranges.
dUSt Posted January 27, 2011 Author Posted January 27, 2011 Could the argument also be applied to smoking a watermelon flavored hooka?
Nihil Obstat Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1296170490' post='2205357'] It's a stretch b/c I think it is apples and oranges. [/quote] Two substances that alter the mind and can lead to harm to one's soul?
Guest Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1296170490' post='2205357'] It's a stretch b/c I think it is apples and oranges. [/quote] From personal experience alcohol is way worse if abused. Hands down not even a question. And also marijuana can be smoked in moderation. Moderation for me is 1 or 2 times inhaling. I would not want anymore. Edited January 27, 2011 by Guest
Papist Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1296169681' post='2205353'] I enjoy the pleasant buzz I get from drinking a couple glasses of The Glenlivet. Would you agree that this is a legitimate pleasure? [/quote] Not legitimate if the intent is to get the buzz. This maybe getting a little scrupulous. I'll have to meditate on that b/c I do enjoy my Belgium beer. I don't drink beer with the intent to get buzzed, but I know the high ABV of Belgium beer prior to drinking. Hmmmm...interesting.
Papist Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1296170571' post='2205358'] Could the argument also be applied to smoking a watermelon flavored hooka? [/quote] What's the intent?
Guest Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1296171191' post='2205361'] Not legitimate if the intent is to get the buzz. This maybe getting a little scrupulous. I'll have to meditate on that b/c I do enjoy my Belgium beer. I don't drink beer with the intent to get buzzed, but I know the high ABV of Belgium beer prior to drinking. Hmmmm...interesting. [/quote] You're allowed to drink to get a buzz. Just not to get drunk. Everybody drinks for the buzz.
Papist Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1296170581' post='2205359'] Two substances that alter the mind and can lead to harm to one's soul? [/quote] The key variant is how it's altered. There are a lot of things that alter minds, some of which are not material.
Nihil Obstat Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1296171191' post='2205361'] Not legitimate if the intent is to get the buzz. This maybe getting a little scrupulous. I'll have to meditate on that b/c I do enjoy my Belgium beer. I don't drink beer with the intent to get buzzed, but I know the high ABV of Belgium beer prior to drinking. Hmmmm...interesting. [/quote] It is a bit scrupulous. To drink to be drunk should be considered sinful, but a minor buzz ≠ drunk.[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1296171597' post='2205364'] The key variant is how it's altered. There are a lot of things that alter minds, some of which are not material. [/quote] You're bringing in variables that were not mentioned in the article. In any case, expand more please.
IcePrincessKRS Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 [quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1296171399' post='2205363'] You're allowed to drink to get a buzz. Just not to get drunk[b]. Everybody drinks for the buzz.[/b] [/quote] No they don't...
Nihil Obstat Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 For the record, I also love the taste of Scotch whisky.
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