If God Is All Powerful, Can He Make A Rock So Big, That Even He Cannot

[dairygirl4u2c]

it seems you are trying to trap me. either into saying 'God can't do something" or "God can do something he established that he can't do". on the one hand, criticizing me for saying there is something God can't do, and on the other, for saying God would back out of what he said he will or won't do.

 

but my approach takes all this into consideration. he can't make an immovabe object of a rock and act as an unstoppable force, at the same time.... that is illogical. if he does it it, it is because he can do anything, but is going beyond illogic. if God makes the rock that can't be lifted, according to his word, and logic, he can't lift it.

 

the only point you might be able to fault me... is that I say he "could" lift the rock he made to not be able to lift, but that he won't. i think this is a thorny issue at best, nothing to bring me down about. how should one approach that? is it better to say he CANT lift the rock he made to not be able to lift, due to his word being true? that would be implying a limitation on his part. or is it better to say he CAN liftt it, but that he won't? this doesn't imply a limitation. I like this approach better for that reason.... he could, but he won't.

[reyb]

it seems you are trying to trap me. either into saying 'God can't do something" or "God can do something he established that he can't do". on the one hand, criticizing me for saying there is something God can't do, and on the other, for saying God would back out of what he said he will or won't do.
 
but my approach takes all this into consideration. he can't make an immovabe object of a rock and act as an unstoppable force, at the same time.... that is illogical. if he does it it, it is because he can do anything, but is going beyond illogic. if God makes the rock that can't be lifted, according to his word, and logic, he can't lift it.
 
the only point you might be able to fault me... is that I say he "could" lift the rock he made to not be able to lift, but that he won't. i think this is a thorny issue at best, nothing to bring me down about. how should one approach that? is it better to say he CANT lift the rock he made to not be able to lift, due to his word being true? that would be implying a limitation on his part. or is it better to say he CAN liftt it, but that he won't? this doesn't imply a limitation. I like this approach better for that reason.... he could, but he won't.

You did not answer my question and I am not trying to trap you because, if you are not aware, you are already ‘caught in that trap’ by your own doing. As I have said

There is shrewdness in this kind of questioning. You are the one who make your own interpretation and premises to the subject, and then, you are trying to prove that you are right simply because you cannot escape in your own useless argument.
It is an example of a crafty who caught in his own craftiness. Try to answer your own question and you will end up saying ‘There is no God’ if not, ‘It is a mystery’.

Christ is God’s omnipotence and seeing his coming is the reason why we believe that nothing is impossible with God. This coming of Christ is the ‘reason’ or ‘rationalization’ why we believe that nothing is impossible with God and God alone can do it (for us). Unlike what you are doing (or trying to do) now. You are just wasting you time and effort in wrong direction because, without seeing Jesus Christ himself - the real Jesus Christ - you will never see or understand the 'reason' why we believe that nothing is impossible with God.

So, before I explain further regarding this subject, can you honestly tell us if you ‘believe’ that it is possible for a true God to lie or not? Edited July 24, 2014 by reyb

[dairygirl4u2c]

i pretty much answered in the question i left off with in the last response i just gave. where i was talking about "his word being true" and such. he wont lie. can he lie? i suppose he has the capability, but he won't. similar to, Jesus could sin, but he never would. i could see if you argued "he can't sin" "God can't lie".... i just prefer to say they have the capability, cause it shows power on their part. it's not like you couldn't be faulted for saying "they can't".

it's hard to look at the temptation of Christ and conclude that Jesus can't sin. he's tempted to, so much that it adds to the evidence that he 'could' sin, even if he never would.

 

you say that you aren't trying to trap me, that i've trapped myself, and such. but obviously, you are trying to trap me. and it's like you are yourself trying to be all that clever stuff you blamed me about, in doing so. and what makes it worse coming from you, is that you are not answering the paradox any better than i am.... in fact, you are mostly just ignoring it or throwing out small pebbles that are hard to pick out given how small they are. in fact, then, you are doing a worse job tackling the issues. if you want to fault me for trying, so be it. but it's not like it's an issue that will 'just go away'... it's staring us right in the fact, it's just a matter of how it's addressed.

Edited July 24, 2014 by dairygirl4u2c

[dairygirl4u2c]

well, i might retract that. most theologians argue there are some things God CANT do. and they usually name sinning as one of those things. i fear i may be veering too far off track on this one....

[dairygirl4u2c]

a kind of interesting idea. i would add that God at least theologically does the illogical. he incarnates as a human. he also is the trininty... which is known to be a paradox itself.... that is, God is the Father, God is Jesus, God is the Holy Spirit, but neither the Father, Jesus or the Holy Spirit are each other... even though basic logic indates that this should be the case.

[reyb]

If you are expecting me to help you in rationalizing your ‘paradox of heavy rock’. Then, as I have said

….. I think I cannot help you ‘rationalizing’ it because the message of your simple riddle is a lie. You can never ‘rationalize’ anything if it is not true because, you have nothing to rationalize to begin with.

But, I am truly trying to help you to get out of that ‘trap’ thus, I said
 

Why not simply say and believe that...

God can lift all and every rock he created. Nothing is too heavy and nothing is impossible to him because He is God, The One and Only all-powerful God. The Only Creator of Everything, Seen and Unseen, Heavens and earth and everything in it. God is The Almighty because He is God.

So, If there is anyone who say, ‘There is a rock which is too heavy for him’ Then, that someone is a liar because, that kind of rock simply do not exist whether in heavens or on earth.

The reason why I said the message of your riddle (or paradox of heavy rock) is a lie, is because it touches the possibility of God to lie. (But the truth is....God cannot lie).

Then, I asked 'Do you believe that is possible for a true God to lie?' . And you said….
 

i pretty much answered in the question i left off with in the last response i just gave. where i was talking about "his word being true" and such. he wont lie. can he lie? i suppose he has the capability, but he won't.

Meaning, if God has the 'capability' then, it is possible for God to lie. But then again you retracted by saying….

well, i might retract that. most theologians argue there are some things God CANT do. and they usually name sinning as one of those things. i fear i may be veering too far off track on this one....

It seems you are saying 'God cannot lie'. (Because, there are some thing God Can't do).

So again, let me asked you and be honest to yourself.

Do you believe that it is possible for True God to lie or not. Edited July 26, 2014 by reyb

[reyb]

a kind of interesting idea. i would add that God at least theologically does the illogical. he incarnates as a human. he also is the trininty... which is known to be a paradox itself.... that is, God is the Father, God is Jesus, God is the Holy Spirit, but neither the Father, Jesus or the Holy Spirit are each other... even though basic logic indates that this should be the case.

The Doctrine of the Holy Trinity is a man's philosophy. True God is not 'Trinity'. We can discuss this later.

[dairygirl4u2c]

right now i'm thinking God cannot lie. but i wouldn't criticize someone for saying he can but won't.

 

i don't see how you are answering the paradox though. God still can't lift the rock if he created it that way. i realize we can say "oh well, God can't lie, so it's not like it's much of a restriction or paradox". but it's still a paradox. a paradox with a christian response, but a paradox nonetheless.

[Catherine Therese]

The Doctrine of the Holy Trinity is a man's philosophy. True God is not 'Trinity'. We can discuss this later.

I find that claim to be both erroneous and alarming.

The doctrine of the Trinity is a conclusion to which man cannot arrive through reason alone. It is certainly NOT philosophy. The doctrine of the Trinity was revealed to us by the Father, the first person of the Blessed Trinity, through the sending of Jesus Christ, the second person of the Blessed Trinity, when He became Incarnate and dwelt among us. It HAD to be revealed to us by God Himself precisely because it was beyond the reach of our human understanding to arrive at a realisation of that truth on the basis of both the natural and philosophical information available to us. We are able to grasp the notion of Trinity just enough to accept it through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Blessed Trinity... nevertheless, the depth of the reality is a mystery that is beyond our grasp.

To SAY that God is not a Trinity is to be wrong.
To TEACH that God is not Trinity is to propagate heresy.

[Catherine Therese]

right now i'm thinking God cannot lie. but i wouldn't criticize someone for saying he can but won't.

I agree with your statement that God cannot lie, but further, would most certainly criticise the claim that He could but wouldn't. ;)

God is Truth.
Truth is a positive concept.
Falsehood is a negative concept.
Falsehood is the antithesis of Truth.
A single claim cannot be both true and false in the same place at the same time about the same thing.
Change is necessary for a claim to be true and false - the passage of time, for example, that allows a claim to be true in one moment and false in the next.
God exists outside of time and space.
God is immutable (c.f. Vat I)
God is pure Being.
Nothing can be and not be at the same time.

On the basis of all of the above, God, who is Truth, is incapable of lying.

Similar facts about God help to resolve the rock paradox.

[reyb]

right now i'm thinking God cannot lie. but i wouldn't criticize someone for saying he can but won't.
 
i don't see how you are answering the paradox though. God still can't lift the rock if he created it that way. i realize we can say "oh well, God can't lie, so it's not like it's much of a restriction or paradox". but it's still a paradox. a paradox with a christian response, but a paradox nonetheless.

How can you say you truly believe that ’God cannot lie’ if at the same time, entertaining the opposite of what you just said.

Okay. Let me ask you again.
Is it possible for a true God to lie or not?

[dairygirl4u2c]

"Is it possible for a true God to lie or not?"

 

no

[reyb]

"Is it possible for a true God to lie or not?"
 
no

why not? Edited July 27, 2014 by reyb

[dairygirl4u2c]

it is against his nature. it would be like asking if a circle can be a square

[LittleWaySoul]

Ugh. This question was done to death... hundreds of years ago. :rolleyes:

You have reached your quota of positive votes for the day

 

:rolleyes: