Jesus_lol Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1319478650' post='2326307'] teen pregnancy [/quote] yeah, i mean look at Texas, they implemented an abstinence only sex education, and it has made a HUGE difference for them. Obviously, the conservative way is the only way to see things like Teen Pregnancy decrease. [url="http://www.ktxs.com/news/26781783/detail.html"]http://www.ktxs.com/news/26781783/detail.html[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1319511467' post='2326702'] yeah, i mean look at Texas, they implemented an abstinence only sex education, and it has made a HUGE difference for them. Obviously, the conservative way is the only way to see things like Teen Pregnancy decrease. [url="http://www.ktxs.com/news/26781783/detail.html"]http://www.ktxs.com/...783/detail.html[/url] [/quote] Conservative way. What's that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1319514801' post='2326716'] Conservative way. What's that? [/quote] Generally, abstinence only sex education falls under that label? why am i telling you, aren't you the conservative in this conversation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 [quote name='Oremoose' timestamp='1319480863' post='2326323'] [size=4][color=#000000][font=Calibri] Rather it means the satus of two adults that promise only to love and be with one another for life (hopefully).[/font][/color][/size] [/quote] Should infertile people or those that don't want to have children, not be allowed to marry? Marriage is a man made concept. Secular marriage is similar but different to religious marriage, there are even some churches that won't let their followers marry non Christians. It is really ridiculous. Maybe if Churches want to have a special aspect to their definition or marriage they could come up with a certification process. Catholics could get a Catholic Church certified marriage. But Religion does not hold exclusive rights to the marriage concept. Secular society uses it to grant legal rights and privileges to people. If same sex lovers want to enjoy those rights and priveledges then though ought to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eternal CB Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 (edited) [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1319086730' post='2324090'] Wow, you give way too much power to a government. I feel government should only get involved if absolutely necessary. Next we will have a moral or religious police branch like some Arab countries have. I could imagine your government deeming it immoral and hence illegal for people to pray to gods other then your god. People going to prison for adultery, for lying, for performing sexual positions that you don't think are moral. Government must restrict their scope to providing a functioning society, not a moral one. Churches can instill their form of moralities on their followers if they wish and if the followers desire to obey. Just don't force your religion on me, I disagree with your religion and your religious based moralities on many points. I would never vote for a religious based government. [/quote] if a government never enforces or encourages morals, then ALL societies would be ruined, as everyone would increasingly become selfish and only search for self gain. In the end, this engenders greed and more vices, and is most likely to end up in the killing of another person for personal gain. If this continues, this type of behaviour will eventually be accepted in society. We've all seen this world without morals, from stories of the "underworld", which is a world exactly of this nature: without morals. An example would be gangs killing enemy gang members for the sake of money. Why do you go against our religious moralities, is it because you find them too difficult to accept? If you think about the society we have a vision for, a society that as we would put it "perfectly moral", would it really be something that you would find difficult to accept? Because the only thing you would find in that society, is the one thing this world truly lacks: [b]love[/b]. Edited October 25, 2011 by Eternal CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eternal CB Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 (edited) [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1319222128' post='2324778'] Suicide should be legal, there is no point putting a dead person in prison, a person who has failed a suicide needs support not punishment. Assisted suicide should be legal but needs some government regulation to put some boundaries on this. Prostitution should most certainly be legal. It is in my country and we haven't noticed our society degrade because of it. Most likely things have improved, with government providing protection to sex workers and gaining taxes from this lucrative industry.[/quote] Do you realise how selfish these acts are, and how harmful they are to those who love the ones engaged in both of these actions? A mother who hears of her son committing suicide - would she not feel pain at the dreadful, chaotic loss of her son's life? Therefore, I disagree with your view on legal or even assisted suicide. Assisted suicide just reflects the degrading morals of this society as lives are taken for granted. Our life is as precious as a diamond. People who just take their lives for granted and say "oop, I feel like dying right now", should most certainly be restricted from that "service" of assisted suicide. Unborn babies who don't even have a chance at living on Earth are dying from abortion, and these people who have lived their lives take them for granted and don't see their worth. Prostitution is something that in itself "benefits" the people involved through that one time pleasure. But the ripple effects of this act are terrible and actually DO contribute to a degraded society. For example, abortion. Abortion is a plausible outcome of prostitution. It results in the death of an unborn baby. THATS KILLING. Another example: the mother/father/relative of the prostitute - would they not feel some sort of disgust or hurt for the loss of the innocence of their daughter/son? Men who just think women are slaves for sex, or objects for sex, eventually degrade their minds! Eventually it encourages them to disregard the woman's feelings, and the focus is only for satisfying their/her carnal pleasure. We've seen this through rapes and assaults of women and even through stories of negligent boyfriends who pretend to care for the sake of sex. So tell me, should prostitution really still be legal after all these effects it has? People do have choices. Yes, of course. But eventually, if the whole world decides to make this same choice to accept these things, the whole world is going to have to deal with the consequences. I would argue, it already has been - STI's, unwanted children, abortion etc. Now is the time to start to change, and make a choice for the better. Edited October 25, 2011 by Eternal CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kia ora Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 (edited) [quote]People who just take their lives for granted and say "oop, I feel like dying right now", [/quote]Spoken like a person who's never suffered depression or tried to kill themself before. You have no credibility, none. Edited October 25, 2011 by Kia ora Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 [quote name='Eternal CB' timestamp='1319522238' post='2326729'] People who just take their lives for granted and say "oop, I feel like dying right now" [/quote] With regards to assisted suicide, I am all for euthanasia (a form of assisted suicide). I see no reason for a terminally ill person to endure a lengthy suffering filled end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 [quote name='Eternal CB' timestamp='1319521031' post='2326728'] as everyone would increasingly become selfish and only search for self gain. [/quote] It is interesting, this concept of selfishness and the opposite, selflessness. In my opinion, only an Atheist can act selflessly. With no reward of heaven, no punishment of hell, only an Atheist performing a good deed with no expectation of mortal gain, this Atheist is truly selfless. [quote name='Eternal CB' timestamp='1319521031' post='2326728'] without morals. An example would be gangs killing enemy gang members for the sake of money. [/quote] Without critical thought. An example would be a Church forsaking a lifetime member, who actively supported and financially gave to his church only to be forsaken in death with denial of a funeral service because he loved a person that the Church did not approve of. It was his love that the church disapproves of and hence disowns him for. Whom did he love to spark such a reaction? A murderer?, A molesterer?, A monster? No, it was a man. [quote name='Eternal CB' timestamp='1319521031' post='2326728'] Why do you go against our religious moralities [/quote] I disagree with the Catholic church's stance on homosexuals, stance on women's role in the church and in the home, stance against the humane practice of euthanasia, stance against education (in particular sex education), stance against safe sex practices, stance against masterbation, stance against ordained people not being allowed to marry and have love of a special person in their lives, stance that other gods are false, stance that other denominations are wrong, stance that Catholic moralities should be forced on society.... The list goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1319516874' post='2326723'] Generally, abstinence only sex education falls under that label? why am i telling you, aren't you the conservative in this conversation? [/quote] No. I am not a conservative. I am Catholic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eternal CB Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Kia ora' timestamp='1319533029' post='2326747'] Spoken like a person who's never suffered depression or tried to kill themself before. You have no credibility, none. [/quote] ahh, thats very judgmental of you. what gives you credibility over my statement? you have no proof either. it doesn't matter if I have experienced that or not, what matters is you and I understand the causes and effects of our actions. Edited October 25, 2011 by Eternal CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eternal CB Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 (edited) [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1319537705' post='2326764'] With regards to assisted suicide, I am all for euthanasia (a form of assisted suicide). I see no reason for a terminally ill person to endure a lengthy suffering filled end. [/quote] I used to agree with you, however, I realise the importance of life. A terminally ill person, should be maintained and kept alive for as long as possible. That person, and that person's family, should be united together in spending those precious final moments together. Not giving up and throwing that life and that opportunity of unification away with euthanasia. A family who practices this shows again, what the world lacks: love, and instead only shows what most of the world is full of: negligence. I do say the word 'should' and not 'have' as many don't agree. As an atheist who does not believe in an afterlife, would not this argument ring more to home as you believe this present life you have now is the only life you or your family will ever have? Another point, there may be some chance of the terminally ill to recover. Miracles in this world do happen whether you believe it or not. My father was the longest surviving patient with his cancer condition (plasma cell leukemia), and that is just one example. Edited October 25, 2011 by Eternal CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eternal CB Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 (edited) [quote] It is interesting, this concept of selfishness and the opposite, selflessness. In my opinion, only an Atheist can act selflessly. With no reward of heaven, no punishment of hell, only an Atheist performing a good deed with no expectation of mortal gain, this Atheist is truly selfless. [/quote] Well its even more interesting to me because when I see atheists most of them lack that motivation to even care for others. Christians, though they believe in a reward for Heaven, do these acts with a spirit of charity. That reward for Heaven, [b]encourages[/b] them to act selflessly and hence focus on [b]others[/b] and not ourselves. Eventually we are to [b]grow[/b] into a truly selfless person and forget all that can be given to us from God, but instead focus solely on loving and giving back to God and not on loving Heaven. Love of God would naturally engender selflessness as He wishes that of us. Jesus Christ, who we believe is Our Lord, died for us selflessly because He believed if He did so we would be saved from the eternal flames of hell. [quote] Without critical thought. An example would be a Church forsaking a lifetime member, who actively supported and financially gave to his church only to be forsaken in death with denial of a funeral service because he loved a person that the Church did not approve of. It was his love that the church disapproves of and hence disowns him for. Whom did he love to spark such a reaction? A murderer?, A molesterer?, A monster? No, it was a man. [/quote] That does seem cruel. But, that member should understand what being a part of the Catholic Church is about. Being part of the Catholic Church is about a sacrifice. That sacrifice is your life. Hence, if that member were truly Catholic he would understand why the Church would have done so; he was breaking a very serious commandment within our confines. If that member were to have been part of another religion that accepts homosexuality maybe things would have turned out differently. Unfortunately, he should have chosen to choose to whole heartedly delve into Christ, this would have resulted in his rejection of that love for that man, and ultimately the [b]full[/b] acceptance of the member from the Church. [quote] I disagree with the Catholic church's stance on homosexuals, stance on women's role in the church and in the home, stance against the humane practice of euthanasia, stance against education (in particular sex education), stance against safe sex practices, stance against masterbation, stance against ordained people not being allowed to marry and have love of a special person in their lives, stance that other gods are false, stance that other denominations are wrong, stance that Catholic moralities should be forced on society.... The list goes on. [/quote] I never asked what you disagreed on, I asked you why do you disagree. Edited October 25, 2011 by Eternal CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1319511467' post='2326702'] yeah, i mean look at Texas, they implemented an abstinence only sex education, and it has made a HUGE difference for them. Obviously, the conservative way is the only way to see things like Teen Pregnancy decrease. [url="http://www.ktxs.com/news/26781783/detail.html"]http://www.ktxs.com/...783/detail.html[/url] [/quote] Tangent - I think some of that can be attributed to how abstinence-only sex ed is handled. Or any sex ed, for that matter. I grew up in a very Baptist area, and the sex ed was more like "sex is evil and dirty! don't do it!" instead of "sex is beautiful within marriage. We respect it so much that we teach it should only be within marriage and this is why". In fact, I had to laugh at that scene in Mean Girls because it reminded me of what my sex ed classes were like! There was so much misinformation, it was horrible! I've even met adults from that area who really thought that sex could trigger ovulation so that a woman could get pregnant at any time. So if the sex ed classes in Texas are anything like that, well, I can understand why it doesn't seem to be "working". We were taught about some birth control, though the info wasn't exactly helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1319540853' post='2326770'] No. I am not a conservative. I am Catholic. [/quote] Right. But it 'says a lot about' me to infer that your religion is the reason for your stand about which vices need to be stomped out of society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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