More On P0Rn

[Sarah147]

It's only acceptable to have normal attraction in the bedroom with a spouse.

Remember the Scriptures that speak of lusting after someone in your heart, and it being adultery?

[4588686]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1321749541' post='2338389']
It's only acceptable to have normal attraction in the bedroom with a spouse.

Remember the Scriptures that speak of lusting after someone in your heart, and it being adultery?
[/quote]


Well I'm not a practicing Catholic so I doubt that we're going to agree on this. I don't see why the attraction needs to be 'normal' and why God cares what sort of attraction two consenting adults have for each other.

[Slappo]

[quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1321507705' post='2337279']

Sorry, buddy, but "it's not a mortal sin anyway" is just a cheap excuse to stay caught in the cycle. Addiction isn't a green light for sin.

"Expecting a young male ... not to masturbate is a lot to ask ..."

Again, sorry, but if you're serious about your faith, that is exactly what you're being asked to do. Yes, it's really tough.[b] Yes, you're going to hate it.[/b] But that's what God is asking of you -- to man up, have courage, and stop.

It's not an issue of "which is more bad, with porn or not." It's about respecting yourself, God, and every woman that ever trusts you. When you choose this stuff, it basically says that your desires are more important than what anyone else needs from you.

I know you probably think it's impossible not to do it. But you can. I swear.
[/quote]

I haven't finished reading the thread yet, but I have to respond to the bolded: No you're not going to hate it, you're going to LOVE that the Church and Christ calls you to virtue. You'll hate how difficult it is, but the fact that we are called to moral excellence and to live virtuously is not something to hate, but something to rejoice over.

I was there, and I'm not now, and I love that the Church and Christ called me to something greater.

[arfink]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1321698773' post='2338202']

I can't really help you since I am not a male but how about channeling some of that testosterone into tiring things like active sports such as swimming, tennis, jogging - something apart from sex?
[/quote]

This can work... or it can backfire horribly. Talk to a soldier, the epitome of physical exertion and active lifestyle. They seem to actually struggle even MORE. Strangely enough. But for some people it works.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1321749541' post='2338389']
It's only acceptable to have normal attraction in the bedroom with a spouse.

[/quote]

yes, no one is sexually attracted to their wife/husband before they get married....

[Slappo]

[quote]
As adults it's not feasible to use blocking or filtering software- if you have to install it then you can uninstall it. Don't rely on that. You're an adult, and you'll just need to be more responsible that that. I wouldn't even suggest using such software for your children, or in situations where the users won't be administering their own computers. I was tasked with administering such software at the seminary (where many men chose not have their own computers) by the rector himself, at the request of concerned vocations directors, and I can tell you that everything we tried (and we tried dozens of applications) was very easily circumvented, even by novice users. Besides this, the filtering software will prove to be a massive hassle, often blocking completely unrelated and necessary sites.

Instead, consider getting a trusted friend (or friends) to help you out. Keep your computer in a public or open place where others can see you when you use it. And always remember that accountability isn't about being punished; it's about being radically freed. Work together.
[/quote]

Sorry, but I'm a married adult and this just isn't true. I still have a web blocker on my computer even though porn hasn't been very much of a problem the past year and a half. My wife has the "administrator" password, and when I was still struggling, she would regularly log into it so that I can edit what I needed to and tighten security. As of late we've just left the security disabled, but the fact that I can even open up the program and disable the internet with a couple of clicks, gives me an excellent tool to prevent any occurrences from happening, or stopping them before they get worse.

If stopping committing sins such as pornography requires blocking www.google.com and all other search engines, then do it. Seriously, the "inconvenience" of not having internet or not going to the websites you want/"need" to is not worth the risks of the pains of hell for all eternity.

[Guest]

I lift weights all the time. I'm pretty built. I'm active.

[Sarah147]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1321767180' post='2338444']

yes, no one is sexually attracted to their wife/husband before they get married....
[/quote]

I think most get what I mean. Sure, there is attraction before marriage, but I'm referring to lusting and sinful attractions.

[Jesus_lol]

feel free to correct me if i am wrong, but from my understanding of catholicism, the attraction/lust you are allowed to have for your girlfriend doesnt change after you are married, rather that you are then ok to act on it.


far be it from me to actually understand what those specific attractions and actions that are allowed actually [i]are[/i], but i am pretty sure that is how it works.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1321817917' post='2338581']
feel free to correct me if i am wrong, but from my understanding of catholicism, the attraction/lust you are allowed to have for your girlfriend doesnt change after you are married, rather that you are then ok to act on it.


far be it from me to actually understand what those specific attractions and actions that are allowed actually [i]are[/i], but i am pretty sure that is how it works.
[/quote]

That is what is so terribly wrong with our current culture. We base our sense of love on attraction and lust. John Paul II's Theology of the Body calls us to transform our vision of sexuality. You can lust after your wife and it be just as unchaste and sinful as lusting after her when she was your girlfriend. Lust is a selfish, destructive, disabling act. It is rooted in utilitarianism.

The Catholic Church calls us to caritas, a charitable, self giving controlled true love, the personalistic norm where we respond to the immense value in another person. How much is your spouses sexuality worth? Can you separate their sexuality from the person?

What the church calls us to something wholly other and higher than what the world calls us to. The view of sexuality of the world, and the worth of the person will only tear us apart and lead to our demise. The value of the person that God calls us to respond to will build us up. No woman or man actually wants to be used as an object of lust, even if they think that is all they are worth and sell themselves short. It is up to us to spread the Good News of how much people are worth as the image of God.

Can a spouse respond to the beloveds physical sexual qualities in the Sacrament of Matrimony, yes, of course, sex is beautiful and wonderful and life giving within the freedom and protection of the Sacrament. But it all matters what the person wills and how they respond to the beloved.

[BG45]

[quote name='brianthephysicist' timestamp='1321739926' post='2338334']
For me, breaking this addiction and staying chaste, was and is only possible through the grace of God. I have spent an incredible amount of time praying for the intercessions of the Blessed Virgin Mary and St. Joseph, her most chaste spouse. I can't even begin to describe how much help they've been for me. Not only was their intercession helpful, but their example as well. We're called to live out a life like Jesus. I try to do that, but I'm not perfect and it doesn't always work. On those days when I'm close to despair over my situation, I think about Mary, Joseph, and the other saints, because (even though Jesus was 100% human in addition to being 100% divine) sometimes it's easier to relate to someone that was only human but that was still able to live out God's will for their life. They have given me confidence that it is possible to find a way to walk with God.
[/quote]

This, this, a thousand times this. That and if I do start having issues with lust and this isn't helping, I start asking myself, "How would I feel if someone was feeling this for my mom? My cousins? My grandmother? The Blessed Virgin Mary?" Every time I see these "sexy" and "naughty" Mary or nun depictions, it fills me with an utter revulsion.

I think the hardest thing, male or female, when dealing with lust is to realize how wrong it is, and to manage to feel revulsion at it period, not just at something that offends us on principles of belief. I wish I did better at this myself, because God knows I'm not the best at it. I think Bl. John Paul II may have summed it up best when he said that our society has lost a sense of what is sin.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' timestamp='1321662239' post='2338066']
Please don't put words in my mouth. Did I need to say, "because you [b]and others[/b] were defensive about the issue" to get my point across without being called out on it?[/quote] apparently you did, because it sure seemed like you were pointing your comment directly at me, considering you said, "I know from your previous posts that you're very defensive about the issue of women and porn"....that pretty much sounds like you are talking directly to me.

[quote name='Totus Tuus' timestamp='1321662239' post='2338066']Your interpretation is that it was snippy. It wasn't snippy in my brain when I was typing it. Can you point out which part offended you because I'm genuinely confused by which part of my clarification warranted that.[/quote] perhaps i'm just having a geniunely shiitake mushroom week, and pretty much everything everyone says sounds snippy to me. especially after you called me out on being defensive. good to know you weren't being snippy when you wrote it, sorry that I took it that way.

[quote name='Totus Tuus' timestamp='1321662239' post='2338066']Sorry, I really fail to see where I offended you in any way. I can assure you that from my vantage point, I never ill-directed anything towards you and that that was completely your interpretation and not my intention.[/quote]
noted.

[MissyP89]

[quote name='Slappo' timestamp='1321759357' post='2338433']

I haven't finished reading the thread yet, but I have to respond to the bolded: No you're not going to hate it, you're going to LOVE that the Church and Christ calls you to virtue. You'll hate how difficult it is, but the fact that we are called to moral excellence and to live virtuously is not something to hate, but something to rejoice over.

I was there, and I'm not now, and I love that the Church and Christ called me to something greater.
[/quote]

This is a fair statement. We were essentially on the same thought train here, I think I just articulated it vaguely. By hating "it" I refer specifically to the moments of temptation that must be resisted. It wouldn't be temptation, after all, if those moments weren't physically/emotionally taxing. The act of pulling away from an addiction is certainly a painful one, but absolutely necessary for healing.

Put simply: no pain, no gain.

There does come a point where the battle does become less intense and we're able to see with greater clarity how good the path we're on truly is. Becoming holy is often extremely arduous, but if we keep at it with perseverance and sacramental grace, the payoff is huge.

And as to your last statement, I'm beginning to reach the point where I can say the same: "I was there, and I'm not now." I can only hope that one day I have the confidence that I can [i]stay [/i]on this road. I'm very grateful for these baby steps.

[MissyP89]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1321748183' post='2338383']

Sure they do. Every woman (and every man, for that matter) deserves to be lusted after, to feel sexually desired and wanted.
[/quote]

Ah, another person I've missed talking to. I think the issue here is the actual meaning of "lust." So often, the normal attraction between two people when they first meet, or even the chemistry a married couple shares in the bedroom is called lust. But that's not true at all.

You're right in saying that mostly everyone wants to be wanted, needed, loved. (Feel free to start singing at any time.) And everyone deserves to be sought after, too.

But desire is not lust. Attraction isn't lust, either. Neither of those things are sin, and I thank God for that!

Defined properly, lust is when you [i]use[/i] a person for their sexuality. If you lust after someone, they are just a means to an end: your own personal pleasure. This also applies when their sexuality takes precedence over their dignity and personality.

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1321749541' post='2338389']
It's only acceptable to have normal attraction in the bedroom with a spouse.
[/quote]

What would you consider "normal attraction"?

If a man calls me pretty for example, or if I find myself admiring his eyes, those are simple expressions of attraction. There is nothing wrong with those emotional or even physical stirrings -- "butterflies". God put them there. It's a foretaste of what He calls us to be if we marry someday: partakers in His creative love. The [i]desire[/i] is totally normal. Only the [i]abuse[/i] of that desire is sin.

From the Catechism:

[i]CCC [/i][i]2351: [/i]"[i]Lust [/i]is [b]disordered[/b] desire for or [b]inordinate[/b] enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered [i]when sought for itself[/i], isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes."

Hope that helps.

Edited November 20, 2011 by MissyP89

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1321821036' post='2338597']
apparently you did, because it sure seemed like you were pointing your comment directly at me, considering you said, "I know from your previous posts that you're very defensive about the issue of women and porn"....that pretty much sounds like you are talking directly to me.

perhaps i'm just having a geniunely shiitake mushroom week, and pretty much everything everyone says sounds snippy to me. especially after you called me out on being defensive. good to know you weren't being snippy when you wrote it, sorry that I took it that way.


noted.
[/quote]
I'm glad we've cleared this up. I did not intend to pick on you, I hope you believe that. I'm sorry if you've had a bad week.

[Papist]

[img]http://www.onlinemba.com/images/internet-porn.jpg[/img]

[dominicansoul]

way to keep the Lord's day holy...

[Papist]

Guess gorging yourself on food and watching football on Thanksgiving supersedes porn.

[DMcB]

I don't have anything to add that hasn't already been said...but I do want to recognize the fact that so many people are being fair and honest in this thread. Sure, a couple of dust ups have come to the surface but for the most part, the dignity toward self and others, plus the conviction for our faith shows that you all are a caring and concerned bunch. Good-on each an every one of you.

Edited December 21, 2011 by DMcB

[Era Might]

I knew this thread was going to be trouble when I opened it lol.

In the old days I would have posted a sentimental highfalutin reflection on conjugal love, but I've learned a lot from Winchester over the years, so I'm going to make it real simple. Put a ring on her finger and you can do it three times a week, four if you're lucky. That's not so bad a deal. Otherwise wear a hair shirt, grit your teeth and bear it.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Era Might