What Does The Church Teach About That Antichirst? Could It Be Obama?

[4588686]

[quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1352777259' post='2508930']
This thread reminded me of a song I haven't heard since the last election when nobody knew who Glenn Beck was.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46t_nrySg4[/media]
[/quote]


I knew who Glen Beck was before 2008. He used to be on CNN. He was kind of funny.

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1352777486' post='2508933']


I knew who Glen Beck was before 2008. He used to be on CNN. He was kind of funny.
[/quote]

Okay, scratch that: [i]I [/i]didn't know who Glen Beck was back then.

[dominicansoul]

the antiChrist is in hardcore metal music.....and my nephew listens to it.......



[img]http://prostheticrecords.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/skeletonwitch-breathing.jpg[/img]

[cmotherofpirl]

Trial, Tribulation & Triumph, by Desmond Birch (available at Amazon) will answer all your questions.

[Freedom]

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1352776392' post='2508921']

I'm not sure you understand what socialism is.

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism[/url]

In some ways, we already are socialist. We have things that are owned cooperatively. Socialism in itself is morally neutral, just like capitalism. Capitalism, in itself, is probably the most inherently un-Christian economic model. At it's core it's all about making as much money as you can for yourself, and to heck with your neighbor. Socialism, on the other hand, is based on satisfying human needs instead of making a profit. Obviously that's a huge over-simplification, but do you see what I'm getting at?
[/quote]

If I ever heard anything wrong, this would be at the top. The most charitable people in America are the rich ones, their charity goes throughout the world, helping everybody without discrimination. Why would that be un-Christian? I don't see anything not Christian about it. The Catholic church lives on donations from the rich, then the church in turn helps the poor. Nobody is forced to give to the church, but they do by the billions. It's not a taxation, it is called true charity and the church expects nothing from the poor. Without the rich people, there would be no churches, no Christian Catholics, no Catholic Schools, no Catholic Hospitals, no Catholic missions etc, etc. Poor people, even when they are generous, how much can they give to others, even with the best will and the kindness heart? Socialism thrives only on villainizing the rich people just to be able to reach their pockets through taxation, that is their only aim and goal so they can grab the power using the rich peoples money. Charity has nothing to do with it, it's only greed and a divide and conquer method. It's all about fooling the poor and fleecing the achievers in order to be in command. It's all politics to them and it's all about money. Who is the un-Christian one here? Certainly not the rich.

[4588686]

[quote name='Freedom' timestamp='1352783887' post='2509018']

If I ever heard anything wrong, this would be at the top. The most charitable people in America are the rich ones, their charity goes throughout the world, helping everybody without discrimination. Why would that be un-Christian? I don't see anything not Christian about it. The Catholic church lives on donations from the rich, then the church in turn helps the poor. Nobody is forced to give to the church, but they do by the billions. It's not a taxation, it is called true charity and the church expects nothing from the poor. Without the rich people, there would be no churches, no Christian Catholics, no Catholic Schools, no Catholic Hospitals, no Catholic missions etc, etc. Poor people, even when they are generous, how much can they give to others, even with the best will and the kindness heart? Socialism thrives only on villainizing the rich people just to be able to reach their pockets through taxation, that is their only aim and goal so they can grab the power using the rich peoples money. Charity has nothing to do with it, it's only greed and a divide and conquer method. It's all about fooling the poor and fleecing the achievers in order to be in command. It's all politics to them and it's all about money. Who is the un-Christian one here? Certainly not the rich.
[/quote]


Well said

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1352782722' post='2509008']
Trial, Tribulation & Triumph, by Desmond Birch (available at Amazon) will answer all your questions.
[/quote]

He was the coolest Phatmasser.
I bought his book about a week after he stopped posting. I just wish he would come back so I could thank him for his contributions here.

[cmotherofpirl]

I messaged you

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1352776392' post='2508921']
In some ways, we already are socialist. We have things that are owned cooperatively. Socialism in itself is morally neutral, just like capitalism. Capitalism, in itself, is probably the most inherently un-Christian economic model. At it's core it's all about making as much money as you can for yourself, and to heck with your neighbor. Socialism, on the other hand, is based on satisfying human needs instead of making a profit. Obviously that's a huge over-simplification, but do you see what I'm getting at?
[/quote]I think your post is a little muddled...



[b]2424[/b] A theory that makes profit the exclusive norm and ultimate end of economic activity is morally unacceptable. The disordered desire for money cannot but produce perverse effects. It is one of the causes of the many conflicts which disturb the social order.[sup][size=2]204[/size][/sup]
A system that "subordinates the basic rights of individuals and of groups to the collective organization of production" is contrary to human dignity.[sup][size=2]205[/size][/sup] Every practice that reduces persons to nothing more than a means of profit enslaves man, leads to idolizing money, and contributes to the spread of atheism. "You cannot serve God and mammon."[sup][size=2]206[/size][/sup]
[b]2425[/b] [b]The Church has rejected the totalitarian and atheistic ideologies associated in modem times with "communism" or "socialism." She has likewise refused to accept, in the practice of "capitalism," individualism and the absolute primacy of the law of the marketplace over human labor[/b].[sup][size=2]207[/size][/sup] [b]Regulating the economy solely by centralized planning perverts the basis of social bonds; regulating it solely by the law of the marketplace fails social justice, [/b]for "there are many human needs which cannot be satisfied by the market."[sup][size=2]208[/size][/sup] Reasonable regulation of the marketplace and economic initiatives, in keeping with a just hierarchy of values and a view to the common good, is to be commended.
[b]IV. ECONOMIC ACTIVITY AND SOCIAL JUSTICE[/b]
[b]2426[/b] The development of economic activity and growth in production are meant to provide for the needs of human beings. Economic life is not meant solely to multiply goods produced and increase profit or power; it is ordered first of all to the service of persons, of the whole man, and of the entire human community. Economic activity, conducted according to its own proper methods, is to be exercised within the limits of the moral order, in keeping with social justice so as to correspond to God's plan for man.[sup][size=2]209[/size][/sup]
[b]<a href="javascript:openWindow('cr/2427.htm');">2427[/b] [i]Human work[/i] proceeds directly from persons created in the image of God and called to prolong the work of creation by subduing the earth, both with and for one another.[sup][size=2]210[/size][/sup] [b]Hence work is a duty: "If any one [u][color=#ff0000]will[/color][/u] not work, let him not eat."[/b][sup][size=2]211[/size][/sup] Work honors the Creator's gifts and the talents received from him. It can also be redemptive. By enduring the hardship of work[sup][size=2]212[/size][/sup] in union with Jesus, the carpenter of Nazareth and the one crucified on Calvary, man collaborates in a certain fashion with the Son of God in his redemptive work. He shows himself to be a disciple of Christ by carrying the cross, daily, in the work he is called to accomplish.[sup][size=2]213[/size][/sup] Work can be a means of sanctification and a way of animating earthly realities with the Spirit of Christ.



It is the extreme version of either Socialism or Captitalism that is undesiered, or considered immoral by the Church. Socialism is NOT prefered to Captitalism.

People have a DUTY to earn the daily bread. The caveat is if they cannot not (as opposed to would prefer not to). That's the problem with extreme socialism.

Extreme captitalism is making profit for the power it gives over others. There is no problem with making a profit and sharing it with those who CANNOT.

Edited November 13, 2012 by Anomaly

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Freedom' timestamp='1352783887' post='2509018']
If I ever heard anything wrong, this would be at the top. The most charitable people in America are the rich ones, their charity goes throughout the world, helping everybody without discrimination. Why would that be un-Christian? I don't see anything not Christian about it. The Catholic church lives on donations from the rich, then the church in turn helps the poor. Nobody is forced to give to the church, but they do by the billions. It's not a taxation, it is called true charity and the church expects nothing from the poor. Without the rich people, there would be no churches, no Christian Catholics, no Catholic Schools, no Catholic Hospitals, no Catholic missions etc, etc. Poor people, even when they are generous, how much can they give to others, even with the best will and the kindness heart? Socialism thrives only on villainizing the rich people just to be able to reach their pockets through taxation, that is their only aim and goal so they can grab the power using the rich peoples money. Charity has nothing to do with it, it's only greed and a divide and conquer method. It's all about fooling the poor and fleecing the achievers in order to be in command. It's all politics to them and it's all about money. Who is the un-Christian one here? Certainly not the rich.
[/quote]
Well put! Agreed, but what you described as socialism seems a little more like communism in its actual form. The capitalism that you describe is a mix of socialism and capitalism (voluntary socialism in a capitalist society) which is a good balance, as neither alone is good. Many in the capitalist world do not give or only give enough to appease their conscience. I'm not wealthy, but I have more than my needs so even though I give generously I have still failed the lesson of the poor woman in the temple who gave up her daily meal for God. How hard it is for a rich person to enter the kingdom of heaven! But I'm sure that the rich that you quote will.

Edited November 13, 2012 by Mark of the Cross

[Freedom]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1352841292' post='2509359']
Well put! Agreed, but what you described as socialism seems a little more like communism in its actual form. The capitalism that you describe is a mix of socialism and capitalism (voluntary socialism in a capitalist society) which is a good balance, as neither alone is good. Many in the capitalist world do not give or only give enough to appease their conscience. I'm not wealthy, but I have more than my needs so even though I give generously I have still failed the lesson of the poor woman in the temple who gave up her daily meal for God. How hard it is for a rich person to enter the kingdom of heaven! But I'm sure that the rich that you quote will.
[/quote]

There is a huge difference between giving freely as the poor woman did in the bible and being extorted from, by the government. The socialist as you want to call them, force you to give or go to jail in the name of fairness and equality. Socialism is the vaseline that helps things slide through while being ripped off, if you know what I mean. We are giving our freedom up in order to embrace socialism. When you give freely it's called charity, when you are forced to give, it's called tax. Which one of the two do you like best?

Also God gave us the freedom not to warship Him too, same way as not to give to charity if one is not willing. That is the ultimate freedom and God created us this way. The reason why America was the greatest country in the history of mankind, is because it has embraced capitalism, why change that? We have seen all the socialistic European countries do terrible and we all learn how bad socialism is thanks to them. Why follow the same failing path, you tell me. I rest my case.

[Basilisa Marie]

Things I did not say: [list]
[*]Rich people are evil.
[*]The Church loves socialism.
[*]The Church things capitalism is evil.
[/list]

Things I did say:[list]
[*]The most distinctive component of capitalism is that it's about making a profit.
[*]The most distinctive component of socialism is that it's about redistribution of resources.
[*]This is a huge over-simplification of both systems.
[/list]

Lots of people throw around "zomg we're becoming a socialist country!!!" without really knowing what that means. By casting socialism in a favorable light, and capitalism in a negative light, I tried to show that capitalism isn't just some objectively moral system.

Either system only works when there are limits on them, and when people act altruistically.

[GeorgiiMichael]

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1352866754' post='2509668']
Things I did not say:[list]
[*]Rich people are evil.
[*]The Church loves socialism.
[*]The Church things capitalism is evil.
[/list]
Things I did say:[list]
[*]The most distinctive component of capitalism is that it's about making a profit.
[*]The most distinctive component of socialism is that it's about redistribution of resources.
[*]This is a huge over-simplification of both systems.
[/list]
Lots of people throw around "zomg we're becoming a socialist country!!!" without really knowing what that means. By casting socialism in a favorable light, and capitalism in a negative light, I tried to show that capitalism isn't just some objectively moral system.

Either system only works when there are limits on them, and when people act altruistically.
[/quote]
Pure capitalism exploits the worker, pure socialism kills ingenuity.

A healthy mix of both is generally accepted as the best solution.

Also, what's wrong with heavy metal music?

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1352778376' post='2508946']
the antiChrist is in hardcore metal music.....and my nephew listens to it.......



[img]http://prostheticrecords.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/skeletonwitch-breathing.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

I probably wouldn't like the music, but that is an amesome album cover.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Freedom' timestamp='1352852335' post='2509517']

There is a huge difference between giving freely as the poor woman did in the bible and being extorted from, by the government. The socialist as you want to call them, force you to give or go to jail in the name of fairness and equality. Socialism is the vaseline that helps things slide through while being ripped off, if you know what I mean. We are giving our freedom up in order to embrace socialism. When you give freely it's called charity, when you are forced to give, it's called tax. Which one of the two do you like best?

Also God gave us the freedom not to warship Him too, same way as not to give to charity if one is not willing. That is the ultimate freedom and God created us this way. The reason why America was the greatest country in the history of mankind, is because it has embraced capitalism, why change that? We have seen all the socialistic European countries do terrible and we all learn how bad socialism is thanks to them. Why follow the same failing path, you tell me. I rest my case.
[/quote]
Actually I don't mind paying tax as long as it's spent wisely. If it were voluntary then many people wouldn't pay and then that would mean they were budging on those who did. Society can't be completely free. I can't play loud music at 3am and have a barking dog. We all must conform to social discipline. What you are describing sounds more like fascism! If a group of people form a club and agree to share all expenses either by equal shares or by means, this is a socialist system and does not prevent a rich person from volunteering to pay a greater share. So really as others have said it is only the extremes that are bad. A mix of both is best.