Finding Other Catholic Virgins?

[Lil Red]

last?

[beatitude]

So we are wrong to hold that against someone, but it's okay to hold against someone something they have NO CONTROL OVER (like parents' divorce)?

 

Norseman, that remark was made to illustrate the OP's hypocrisy. He said that he wouldn't want to date a rape victim not just because she's no longer a virgin (even though she is, in the eyes of the Church) but because she is likely to have emotional problems due to her past trauma. So people then asked him, what about HIS past? Maybe he's unsuitable to marry because of his parents' divorce!

 

The point here is that he has been promoting one standard for himself and one standard for this mythical perfect bride.

[Lil Red]

last? 

[KnightofChrist]

I live in Chicago, and from personal experience, if a community is integrated (like mine is to a certain extant), then yes, I can feel safe (safe enough to have not locked my door when taking my dog for a walk).  The problem is that the violent crime I hear about on the news is by and large in the non-integrated neighborhoods.

Well that's just super. But what he said isn't defensible. Just because he has never seen a black community that is safe, stable, and all around nice place to live, doesn't not mean they don't exist. They do exist. I really do not understand why you would defend such ignorance.

[KnightofChrist]

last?

L A S T

[Lil Red]

L A S T

 

NO ME! 

 

LAST?!

[CatholicsAreKewl]

The OP still hasnt given his rebuttal yet so it's unfair to cut him off. I say we close it at 100.

Edited August 4, 2013 by CatholicsAreKewl

[CatholicsAreKewl]

Last

[arfink]

Narf.

[polskieserce]

Well I'm glad that you quote the pleasure over pain part of utilitarianism, but it is so contrary to what Catholic thinking is I cannot fathom why you think it is a good principle. 

 

Regardless if people actually realize it or not, utilitarianism is the primary driver behind most human behavior.  Did you just wake up yesterday or what?  Why do you think people take the time to go to college?  Because it allows them to get a higher salary and better working conditions.  Why do you think that most people with severe intellectual disabilities go unmarried?  Blunt answer: Part of the reason is that they can't support a family, but another big part is that people don't want to put up with all the pain and misery of being with a person like that.  That is the brutal truth that most people do not talk about.  Why do you think that socialism has failed with the human species but capitalism has worked?

 

Where do you go to meet young Catholic virgin girls?  Church.  Church events.  Retreats.  Catholic-y places, obviously.  Like phatmass.  Yeah, sure, there are plenty of girls who were 'raised Catholic' but no longer have anything to do with that.  So look in places that are more hard core.  You'll find plenty of girls who have been earnestly trying to live a moral life their whole lives.  Generation Life, Focus, TEC, Crossroads, etc.  Don't bemoan the scene on your college campus - look for some authentic Catholic young adult groups and join in their activities. You're bound to meet some avvesome single girls, and not all of them will be discerning religious life.  They won't all be virgins, either, of course.  

 

How do you get such girls to take an interest in you and be willing to date you?   Obviously not by saying, 'I'm looking for a virgin - are you one?'  So this thread has been educational in that regard, as well.  You want to start your married life with a woman who has waited for marriage? Fine.  But if you want to get to the point where she says, 'I do', you might find that there's more to the search than that.  A woman will appreciate being cherished as someone special.  Fulfilling a checklist?  Not so much.  This doesn't mean that you don't have an idea in mind of who you're looking for.  It means that in your approach, you have to consider *that person*, not consult the checklist.  A 'nonnegotiable' means that if you find out about something, you'd no longer pursue a relationship with that person.  You wouldn't give them a chance or try it out or wait and see. And that's fine - you only have to love one person to ask her to marry you.  But asking someone if she is still a virgin is a rather personal question.  Whether the answer is yes or no, she's likely going to be offended if that question arises before some level of trust is established.  And if you ask the question, get a 'no' and then drop her....well, you do realize she's going to tell all of her girlfriends what happened, right?  So you won't have much luck with any of the other girls in that group either.  

 

What I'm saying in all of this are that relationships are complex, and often people aren't actually ready for a real relationship or marriage even if they think they are.  I know, I know, in the old days, we'd all be married off or old maids by the age of 18.  But for some reason, people in our culture take their time growing up, and not everyone is ready for the love and sacrifice of marriage in their mid-20s.  So if you aren't ready, give it some time, and just enjoy meeting some good Catholic people.

 

Thank you for taking the time to answer the original question.  I will definitely use the additional resources you listed.  Lol, obviously I'm not going to walk up to a girl and just ask if she is a virgin.  But I don't see anything wrong with asking her during the dating phase what the deal is down below.  For crying out loud, there have been times when I was talking to girls and they asked me how many girls I slept with (and this was shortly after I met them).  I don't see anything wrong with asking after 3-4 dates.  I realize that relationships are complex and I don't expect to be married in the next 18-24 months.  Also, one thing I wanted to note is that I'm no longer in college.  I graduated, therefore I'm no longer present in that scene.

 

So all black communities are unsafe, unstable, and not nice places to live? Their all just a bunch of unstable, violent drug addicts just waiting to steal your car and sell it?

Maybe it's better you don't answer that, and instead you just finally shut up and take your backward butt on someplace else.

 

The majority of them are.  Please explain the phenomenon of white flight to me if this is just a few people here and there who enjoy living amongst their own kind.  I never said that all black people are evil thugs.  But on average, there is more crime than you would see in a white suburb.  The numbers are what they are.

 

As a Philosophy major at Franciscan, I'd like to make a clarification on this.

 

This theory is not just common sense as you say. I took an Ethics class last semester and John Stuart Mill's Utilitarianism was examined and discussed. His basic premise was as you said, "a theory that the aim of action should be the largest possible balance of pleasure over pain or the greatest happiness of the greatest number."

 

That being said, Mill's theory was the one with the most holes able to be drilled into it by our class of about 4 college students (mostly freshmen). The Catholic Church subscribes more to an Ethical system outlined by Aristotle, or better yet, St. Thomas Aquinas and St. Augustine. Both of which have theories that are extremely contrary to Mill's.

 

There are many things that are the right thing to do that do not bring the most pleasure over pain for the greatest number of people. Doing the right thing is often hard and seemingly pointless. But that doesn't diminish its virtue.

 

Again, as a double major in Philosophy and Catholic Theology, I can tell you with absolute certainty that Utilitarianism is far from being a theory accepted by the Church.

 

Regardless if it's accepted by the catholic church, that's how the world is.  Again, I already made a rebuttal argument about utilitarianism higher up in this post.  This is my way of thinking because I want my marriage to last.  If I just marry any random person, then it could be a very ugly situation.  If I marry a person that is undesirable in my eyes, I already know with 100% certainty that I won't have the drive to make the marriage work and last for a lifetime.

 

I live in one of those dangerous neighbourhoods in Canada. I used to live in one in Florida. The homelessness, poverty and addiction look the same. The faces are different though. In Florida it was the African Americans. Here it is the Native First Nations people. There are lots of Africans here, except they are all recent immigrants who come full of hope and are incredibly hard working. The Natives gave up hope a long time ago.

We live here because it is close to downtown and very walkable. It's also cheap. That's how we can afford to open our home to lots of kids. I don't fear our neighbors who have list hope, I pity them. I pray for them.

 

If you want to live in bad areas, then that's your choice.  But most people disagree with your thinking.  I was with a real estate agent last week looking at houses out of state.  Even my real estate agent was saying that she did not like certain areas of the city I'm looking at (which happened to be black neighborhoods).  She even said "I don't really like driving through these areas around the afternoon because that is when the element is out in the streets".  The neighborhoods that were predominantly white had home values that were about 20-40k higher than in the dangerous black neighborhoods.  Does that tell you something?  There would not be such a large gap in home prices if people like me were a rarity.  Most white people don't talk openly about it, but this is the thinking that is in the back of their minds, and rightfully so.  Many of these communities that are predominantly minority tend to have high crime, piss poor schools, and a very ghetto culture.

 

You know, if people had just stayed on topic and given him advice on where to meet them and not give him grief for wanting someone equal to him in the virginity department (which happened practically immediately after his first post), things would not have turned ugly like they did. 

 

I hope youse are all proud of yourselves.

 

I would have appreciated if people had stayed on topic, but you always have a couple of people who want to lecture the poster about their world view.

 

Seriously? I think we've all made it perfectly clear that it's FINE to desire a virgin spouse. But it's NOT FINE to demand a virgin spouse as if you're entitled to a piece of property. And it's NOT FINE to lump all non-virgin women into the hoe-bag category, or to speak of them as if they're sub-human. It's also NOT FINE to demand that the spouse ALSO be white, tall, no history of mental illness/present medications (even if it's something so common as an antidepressant or benzo), wealthy, and whatever other non-negotiables he has on his little checklist.

 

You clearly just don't understand that it's the OP's attitude we have a problem with.

 

Lastly, you're just as bad - you're obviously implying that all American Catholics are liberals? I'm an American Catholic and I have very high standards, thanks.

 

Lol if there was a BS button on my desk, I would be pushing it in a heart beat right now.  Even before the thread went on fire, people were already telling me that there are plenty of great non-virgin catholic girls who would make great wives, asking me why I wouldn't marry a "prodigal", and trying to discourage me by saying that they are harder to find.  All of that is irrelevant discussion because the point of the thread is not to decide whether or not non-virgins make acceptable spouses.  It is not to decide if I should accept a girl who repented.  It was not to decide whether virgins are easy to find or not, because I already know it's not easy.  I have already decided what types of people I am willing to accept and which ones I will write off in a heartbeat.  If people could stay on topic, this thread would have been no more than 20 posts long.  The reason why is a few hundred posts long is that a lot of people got emotional and had to start trying to convince me that they are right.  Clearly, I have not budged on this issue.

 

Newsflash, everyone sins. And everyone has that one vice they struggle with. Also - amazingly - people DO repent and commit to a new life in Christ.

 

And?  It doesn't mean they will be accepted by the rest of the community.  I don't see employers rushing to hire child rapists.  Maybe some of them really did repent and are genuinely sorry.  God gives people 2nd chances, but it doesn't mean that people here on Earth will.

 

Norseman, that remark was made to illustrate the OP's hypocrisy. He said that he wouldn't want to date a rape victim not just because she's no longer a virgin (even though she is, in the eyes of the Church) but because she is likely to have emotional problems due to her past trauma. So people then asked him, what about HIS past? Maybe he's unsuitable to marry because of his parents' divorce!

 

The point here is that he has been promoting one standard for himself and one standard for this mythical perfect bride.

 

My parents' divorce has not made me unsuitable for marriage.  The divorce has made me much more aggressive in standing up for myself, my personal interests, and making sure that I don't settle for a person who has less to bring to the table than I do.  Don't start your rambling about utilitarianism blah blah blah.  I am standing up for my interests.  No amount of repentance will make me accept a non-virgin as my wife, and that is where the boulder stands.  If a girl expects to get married, then she better have a lot to bring to the table.  Legal marriage is a financial dead end for men these days, so clearly she needs to be able to sway me in other ways if she wants that type of titanic commitment (her v-card).

[Norseman82]

 For crying out loud, there have been times when I was talking to girls and they asked me how many girls I slept with (and this was shortly after I met them). 

 

Ironically, the only time it ever came up with me is when the lady asked me!  (Obviously that doesn't include times I was trying to get rid of a telemarketer..).

[Ice_nine]

polksie, Freedom thinks you're avvesome. Snatch her up man!

[Amppax]

Regardless if people actually realize it or not, utilitarianism is the primary driver behind most human behavior.  Did you just wake up yesterday or what?  Why do you think people take the time to go to college?  Because it allows them to get a higher salary and better working conditions.  Why do you think that most people with severe intellectual disabilities go unmarried?  Blunt answer: Part of the reason is that they can't support a family, but another big part is that people don't want to put up with all the pain and misery of being with a person like that.  That is the brutal truth that most people do not talk about.  Why do you think that socialism has failed with the human species but capitalism has worked?

 

Regardless if it's accepted by the catholic church, that's how the world is.  Again, I already made a rebuttal argument about utilitarianism higher up in this post.  This is my way of thinking because I want my marriage to last.  If I just marry any random person, then it could be a very ugly situation.  If I marry a person that is undesirable in my eyes, I already know with 100% certainty that I won't have the drive to make the marriage work and last for a lifetime.

 

 

Why are you interested in marrying a Catholic if you don't agree with the Catholic Church? It's really simple, and has been explained to you.  Utilitarian moral systems are incompatible with Catholic faith.  People aren't objects to be used, sorry to burst that bubble for you.  

 

I think your struggle with accepting Catholic teachings is going to make it harder for you to find a Catholic spouse than the issue of her virginity.  

[truthfinder]

 Why do you think people take the time to go to college?  Because it allows them to get a higher salary and better working conditions.  

 

  Legal marriage is a financial dead end for men these days, so clearly she needs to be able to sway me in other ways if she wants that type of titanic commitment (her v-card.)

 

Wow, I wish this were true in my field - every year of extra education, the greater likelihood of long-term unemployment it seems like. 

 

And that's probably your creepiest statement as of yet - and that line of thinking leads to the breakdown of marriages and fatherless children.

 

 

Please, let me be LAST!!!

Edited August 4, 2013 by truthfinder

[Norseman82]

Why are you interested in marrying a Catholic if you don't agree with the Catholic Church? It's really simple, and has been explained to you.  Utilitarian moral systems are incompatible with Catholic faith.  People aren't objects to be used, sorry to burst that bubble for you.  

 

I think your struggle with accepting Catholic teachings is going to make it harder for you to find a Catholic spouse than the issue of her virginity.  

 

Well, for me, I have a saying that something may not be a matter of right or wrong but rather of what is real.  Once we see what the reality of the situation is, we can more clearly see what Catholic teaching applies and where and how.  It's like a doctor trying to make a diagnosis; the doctor needs to know what the affliction is in order to prescribe the correct treatment; misdiagnose, and you could supply a treatment that could harm/kill the patient.  Similarly, knowing "this is how the world works" can be a first step in applying Catholic teaching to one's life.  I don't know if this is what Polskiserce is trying to get at; I'll let him answer it.