Phatmass Book Club

[EmilyAnn]

I started reading the day before yesterday. 

 

I have read one John Green book before (Looking For Alaska) and I loved it. My sister is also a massive John Green fan and has every one of his books but I absolutely Was Not going to read The Fault In Our Stars. So when it got picked for this I was Less Than Impressed. But, reason prevailed. 

 

I'm loving it. I haven't been this absorbed by a book in a long time. I want to keep reading but at the same time I feel compelled to savour it. 

 

Damn you, Phatmass. 

 

:P

[PhuturePriest]

I got it last week and read it slowly -- which took a grand total of two days. Absolutely amazing book.

[cartermia]

Finished it last Friday or Thursday, cannot remember... :think:

[AnneLine]

Still reading it slower than I would have liked because of  ** D R A M A ** in my world.

 

It is a great book!

[Basilisa Marie]

FRIENDS TODAY IS THE DAY HOORAY! 

:bounce: :w00t:  :yahoo:  :dance:   :dance5:   :clap:  :dance6:  :dance2:  :dance3:

[PhuturePriest]

FRIENDS TODAY IS THE DAY HOORAY! 

:bounce: :w00t:  :yahoo:  :dance:   :dance5:   :clap:  :dance6:  :dance2:  :dance3:

 

Let's get this bandwagon started, then.

 

First off, we should speak about the ending. Sweet Jesus, talk about the most annoying ending I've ever witnessed. It just ends right there without further explanation of what happens to anyone. It might as well have ended in mid-sentence.

[Basilisa Marie]

Let's get this bandwagon started, then.
 
First off, we should speak about the ending. Sweet Jesus, talk about the most annoying ending I've ever witnessed. It just ends right there without further explanation of what happens to anyone. It might as well have ended in mid-sentence.

 
I think the reason for that was that it didn't matter what happened after that. The story was about the "little infinity" of Augustus and Hazel, and
 
[spoiler] after he dies their little infinity is over. Hazel's going to live out the rest of her days, however long that is, better for knowing and being with Augustus. [/spoiler]

 

Edit: So should we use spoiler tags? How much? for what plot points? 

This is how to use them [spoiler*]THING THAT IS A SPOILER[*/spoiler] without the * 

Edited February 20, 2014 by Basilisa Marie

[AnneLine]

I am at the bottom of this thread and NOT reading above... because I am still trying to FIND the time to read!  SO FRUSTRATING!!!!!!  But you guys get started, because i don't think I can get there until at least tomorrow.... have a bunch of meetings tomorrow and Saturday, and just no time. :cry:

 

I AM LOVING THE BOOK!!!!

Edited February 20, 2014 by AnneLine

[PhuturePriest]

 
I think the reason for that was that it didn't matter what happened after that. The story was about the "little infinity" of Augustus and Hazel, and
 
[spoiler] after he dies their little infinity is over. Hazel's going to live out the rest of her days, however long that is, better for knowing and being with Augustus. [/spoiler]

 

Edit: So should we use spoiler tags? How much? for what plot points? 

This is how to use them [spoiler*]THING THAT IS A SPOILER[*/spoiler] without the * 

 

This is all fine and good, but I still want to know what happens to the characters, Kaitlyn in particular. :P

 

Seriously, Kaitlyn is supposedly one of her best friends, but you only see her once, and she's only mentioned a few times. It's weird.

[Basilisa Marie]

So because I'm a theology nerd, what did you guys think of the way he portrays religion in the book? John Green studied to be an Episcopal priest and was a chaplain for a while before he quit and became an author.  

I personally feel that the way he writes the "literal heart of Jesus" scenes makes it seem like he's saying that there are all kinds of ways people try and cope with impending death and loss and suffering, and the only thing that really works is companionship. There's this idea of people accompanying others while they experience great suffering that's really prevalent in a lot of liberation theology (the good kind, not the crazypants kind), similar to Simon helping Jesus carry the cross. I would have really liked there to have been at least one character who took a more religious way of dealing with their suffering, in a way that was respectful. I got the impression that he's saying (whether intentionally or unintentionally) that religion is only effective at helping people with suffering if it provides the setting for companionship to happen -- much like how the 'literal heart of Jesus" was nothing more than the setting for the support group. Patrick is kind of religious, but he comes off as very shallow and disingenuous to me - like the guy who runs around thinking trite sayings like "oh just offer it up!" are going to help you flip a switch and suddenly deal with your suffering better. I also think Patrick represents the author, how he saw himself as a minister. 


 But then I always want more authentic religious characters in my literature, because I have a personal axe to grind against our culture disrespecting anyone who is any kind of person of serious faith, no matter the religion. :)

Edited February 20, 2014 by Basilisa Marie

[Basilisa Marie]

This is all fine and good, but I still want to know what happens to the characters, Kaitlyn in particular. :P

 

Seriously, Kaitlyn is supposedly one of her best friends, but you only see her once, and she's only mentioned a few times. It's weird.

 

I think Kaitlyn is who Hazel would have been without cancer. 

[PhuturePriest]

So because I'm a theology nerd, what did you guys think of the way he portrays religion in the book? John Green studied to be an Episcopal priest and was a chaplain for a while before he quit and became an author.  

I personally feel that the way he writes the "literal heart of Jesus" scenes makes it seem like he's saying that there are all kinds of ways people try and cope with impending death and loss and suffering, and the only thing that really works is companionship. There's this idea of people accompanying others while they experience great suffering that's really prevalent in a lot of liberation theology (the good kind, not the crazypants kind), similar to Simon helping Jesus carry the cross. I would have really liked there to have been at least one character who took a more religious way of dealing with their suffering, in a way that was respectful. I got the impression that he's saying (whether intentionally or unintentionally) that religion is only effective at helping people with suffering if it provides the setting for companionship to happen -- much like how the 'literal heart of Jesus" was nothing more than the setting for the support group.  But then I always want more authentic religious characters in my literature, because I have a personal axe to grind against our culture disrespecting anyone who is any kind of person of serious faith, no matter the religion. :)

 

I think Augustus's parents were good models for Christians dealing with a bad situation, but it could also be argued that they were using it as an emotional crutch to deal with everything that was going on. That being said, it was nice there were some faith elements.

 

As I read near the ending of the book and [spoiler]Gus dies, I couldn't help but laugh hysterically that his last words were "No cursing in the Literal Heart of Jesus. :P[/spoiler]

 

I think Kaitlyn is who Hazel would have been without cancer. 

 

For some reason, I just can't see Hazel being that loose with men. :P

Edited February 20, 2014 by FuturePriest387

[Basilisa Marie]

I think Augustus's parents were good models for Christians dealing with a bad situation, but it could also be argued that they were using it as an emotional crutch to deal with everything that was going on. That being said, it was nice there were some faith elements.

 

As I read near the ending of the book and [spoiler]Gus dies, I couldn't help but laugh hysterically that his last words were "No cursing in the Literal Heart of Jesus. :P[/spoiler]

 

 

For some reason, I just can't see Hazel being that loose with men. :P

 

Gus' parents - hmm, that's certainly possible, but with their obsession with nice sayings, I think they're in the same boat as Patrick. Though certainly better at it. And maybe you're right - all the sayings have become a sort of in-joke with the family, while Patrick seems to take them seriously. They totally reminded me of the parents of the non-denom friends I had in high school, like, spittin' image. :)

 

Oh, I think Hazel totally would have been "loose" with men if she hadn't had cancer. I mean, she 

 

[spoiler] has zero hesitation having sex with Gus, right? (I could be remembering this wrong) [/spoiler]

I think soooo much of who Hazel is is defined by her cancer, in so many ways. It's the biggest "thing" in her life that makes her who she is. I don't know if she'd be as bookish as she is without her experiences with her illness. But that, I think, is the beauty of what happens when Gus comes along and refuses to allow her to define herself by her illness. For the first time, Hazel is really given the opportunity to define herself outside of her illness, and in that, I think she starts becoming a more authentic version of herself. I think that's the real gift Gus gave her. 

[PhuturePriest]

Gus' parents - hmm, that's certainly possible, but with their obsession with nice sayings, I think they're in the same boat as Patrick. Though certainly better at it. And maybe you're right - all the sayings have become a sort of in-joke with the family, while Patrick seems to take them seriously. They totally reminded me of the parents of the non-denom friends I had in high school, like, spittin' image. :)

 

Oh, I think Hazel totally would have been "loose" with men if she hadn't had cancer. I mean, she 

 

[spoiler] has zero hesitation having sex with Gus, right? (I could be remembering this wrong) [/spoiler]

I think soooo much of who Hazel is is defined by her cancer, in so many ways. It's the biggest "thing" in her life that makes her who she is. I don't know if she'd be as bookish as she is without her experiences with her illness. But that, I think, is the beauty of what happens when Gus comes along and refuses to allow her to define herself by her illness. For the first time, Hazel is really given the opportunity to define herself outside of her illness, and in that, I think she starts becoming a more authentic version of herself. I think that's the real gift Gus gave her. 

 

That is true. But I think the reason she [spoiler] had sex with Gus is because she really loved him. She might have no issue having sex with guys, but I think she personally would have to love them and have an emotional connection with them. [/spoiler]

 

And I was actually thinking the same thing. Big things like that really change people and how they act.

 

I think the thing I liked the best about the book was it gave a message to not let illnesses (Or whatever thing you personally struggle with) define you, which is really easy to do.

[PhuturePriest]

Gus' parents - hmm, that's certainly possible, but with their obsession with nice sayings, I think they're in the same boat as Patrick. Though certainly better at it. And maybe you're right - all the sayings have become a sort of in-joke with the family, while Patrick seems to take them seriously. They totally reminded me of the parents of the non-denom friends I had in high school, like, spittin' image. :)

 

Oh, I think Hazel totally would have been "loose" with men if she hadn't had cancer. I mean, she 

 

[spoiler] has zero hesitation having sex with Gus, right? (I could be remembering this wrong) [/spoiler]

I think soooo much of who Hazel is is defined by her cancer, in so many ways. It's the biggest "thing" in her life that makes her who she is. I don't know if she'd be as bookish as she is without her experiences with her illness. But that, I think, is the beauty of what happens when Gus comes along and refuses to allow her to define herself by her illness. For the first time, Hazel is really given the opportunity to define herself outside of her illness, and in that, I think she starts becoming a more authentic version of herself. I think that's the real gift Gus gave her. 

 

Are we the only ones who have read the entire book, or are we in fact the only ones who care? :P

[ChristinaTherese]

I've read it, but it probably wasn't the best time and it was right after a book that was so wonderful that this one just couldn't compare. (Thanks, DtA!)

[maximillion]

I've read it.

 

 

 

Don't know what to say except maybe:

 

It took me six hours to read, so is judged by the maxi score as very light (in substance).

I agree with what BasilisaMarie said about Gus' gift to Hazel. He saw her, and that permitted  her to see a bigger picture of her self. She stepped outside the illness a bit.

I found lots of what was said about having a terminal illness ( yup, I have! But I got better against all the odds and against the prognosis) very true. People do treat you differently simply because of the illness and they somehow stop seeing you as the person you are.It's hard not to take on that ID.

Would I have had sex if my lover was about to die? Seriously? Don't know. I can say all sorts about that but until/unless I am in that situation it is mere speculation.

I think given today's culture the book reflects that culture. Most people wouldn't be surprised by the physical stuff, in fact they would think that was normal.

 

I liked the philosophy references. It made the book a bit different.

I looked at all of his other books after I read this and rejected them all.......maybe that says something about me more than it does about the writer or the books.

[maximillion]

The ending?

 

Your joking me right?

 

 

 

I saw that as an authors ploy. John Green did the same in his story as the author in the book does. 

 

What do folks think of Green doing that?

[AnneLine]

I am going crazy watching this thread grow and not letting myself look at it.  I am HOPEFUL of finishing by tomorrow night!!!!!    Looks like you must be having a wonderful discussion!  I hope so!!!!!

[Basilisa Marie]

The ending?

 

Your joking me right?

 

 

 

I saw that as an authors ploy. John Green did the same in his story as the author in the book does. 

 

What do folks think of Green doing that?

 

Well, I think it was appropriate. It's a story about their relationship - it begins right before Hazel meets Gus, and ends with Hazel making a symbolic statement of how she views her relationship with Gus. I think the "i do" statements are supposed to evoke marriage symbolism, whether it be the simple "til death do us part" or that she feels like someone who has just lost a spouse. I know it all sparked a lot of controversy when the book first came out. 

 

Edit: John Green's said about the subject: ""Shakespeare's comedies end in marriage and his tragedies end in death, and I was rather fond of the idea that my book could end (symbolically, at least) in both."

Edited February 22, 2014 by Basilisa Marie