mortify ii Posted May 4, 2014 Author Share Posted May 4, 2014 And I'm saying that we can't judge a person's heart and know that they are fully culpable for their ignorance. God can. And does. Extra ecclesiam nulla salus, but remember that God is merciful and understanding. We can't judge subjectively, only objectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 We can't judge subjectively, only objectively. God can judge objectively. I'm pretty sure we were warned not to judge lest we be judged ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify ii Posted May 4, 2014 Author Share Posted May 4, 2014 God can judge objectively. I'm pretty sure we were warned not to judge lest we be judged ourselves. We can judge objectively Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 We can judge objectively Well you've been granted a gift that I certainly don't have. Please, I'm curious, could you objectively judge my heart for me? I'm curious about my salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify ii Posted May 4, 2014 Author Share Posted May 4, 2014 Well you've been granted a gift that I certainly don't have. Please, I'm curious, could you objectively judge my heart for me? I'm curious about my salvation. Judging your heart is outside the realm of objectivity, we can only judge actions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Judging your heart is outside the realm of objectivity, we can only judge actions That's sort of my point. God can judge one's heart objectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify ii Posted May 4, 2014 Author Share Posted May 4, 2014 That's sort of my point. God can judge one's heart objectively. I think your misunderstanding here. It's objectively a mortal sin to miss mass on Sunday, but if a person got there days mixed up and thought it was still Saturday, they are not guilty. We can not judge the state of a person's soul, and that includes our own, we can only judge actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 I think your misunderstanding here. It's objectively a mortal sin to miss mass on Sunday, but if a person got there days mixed up and thought it was still Saturday, they are not guilty. We can not judge the state of a person's soul, and that includes our own, we can only judge actions. Regardless of my misunderstanding, what do you make of the two quotes I provided, statements that have always been believed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify ii Posted May 4, 2014 Author Share Posted May 4, 2014 Regardless of my misunderstanding, what do you make of the two quotes I provided, statements that have always been believed? I think I've said this numerous times, you can't be guilty of something you are ignorant of, but ignorance is not salvific. It is a very common error to think being ignorant either automatically gets you into heaven or is somehow an easier path to heaven. Without grace, enlightenment, and the sacraments preserving our state of sanctifying grace is extremely difficult and I dare say virtually impossible, but God knows best. There was a native American, sadly I can't remember his name, but he embraced the truth faith and recounted his story to a priest. This saintly fellow said he had never committed a sin in his life and always strived to do good, such a man was granted the faith but if hypothetically he were not and died in such a state, could God have remitted original sin and provided him sanctifying grace? Of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 I think I've said this numerous times, you can't be guilty of something you are ignorant of, but ignorance is not salvific. It is a very common error to think being ignorant either automatically gets you into heaven or is somehow an easier path to heaven. Without grace, enlightenment, and the sacraments preserving our state of sanctifying grace is extremely difficult and I dare say virtually impossible, but God knows best. There was a native American, sadly I can't remember his name, but he embraced the truth faith and recounted his story to a priest. This saintly fellow said he had never committed a sin in his life and always strived to do good, such a man was granted the faith but if hypothetically he were not and died in such a state, could God have remitted original sin and provided him sanctifying grace? Of course. Then we are in agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify ii Posted May 4, 2014 Author Share Posted May 4, 2014 :bananarap: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Be honest it disappoints you non catholics will be in Heaven.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify ii Posted May 4, 2014 Author Share Posted May 4, 2014 Only you disappoint me, Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Well thankfully God is my judge and not sspx mortify....So continue to be disappointed and when I get into Heaven with all my non catholic peeps you can throw a tantrum and hope God will hear you out and give us hell like you know we deserve... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify ii Posted May 4, 2014 Author Share Posted May 4, 2014 Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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