Graces From Protestant Services?

[Guest]

If only we could go back to the days of burning people at the stake....And John Paul the Second a Saint ??? What is happening why haven't I joined a sspx church yet...Mortify 2 lead me to the light !!!!!

[mortify ii]

It all goes back to Pope Pius IX's warning. If we only listened to him, maintained the monarchic form of Government and damned that hellish form of Government known as democracy, then we would not have terrible things like freedom of religion.

 

The decay began much earlier, maybe as far back as a thousand years earlier, when reason was divorced from intellect and anything esoteric was ruled with suspicion. The Popes of the latter times were right to fight against what they recognized as an outside and very nefarious force but by then they were only supporting a superficial shell. When the "Good Pope" sat on the throne in the '60's everything was already well primed for a complete collapse, and so like a deck of cards it all came to an end. 

 

By the way, have to ask, which religion do you profess to hold again?

[John Ryan]

The decay began much earlier, maybe as far back as a thousand years earlier, when reason was divorced from intellect and anything esoteric was ruled with suspicion. The Popes of the latter times were right to fight against what they recognized as an outside and very nefarious force but by then they were only supporting a superficial shell. When the "Good Pope" sat on the throne in the '60's everything was already well primed for a complete collapse, and so like a deck of cards it all came to an end. 

 

By the way, have to ask, which religion do you profess to hold again?

 

I am a practicing Roman Catholic. The Church is my home, and my comfort. 

[mortify ii]

If only we could go back to the days of burning people at the stake....And John Paul the Second a Saint ??? What is happening why haven't I joined a sspx church yet...Mortify 2 lead me to the light !!!!!

 

Put down the gonja and pick up a book

[mortify ii]

I am a practicing Roman Catholic. The Church is my home, and my comfort. 

 

I meant no offense John, people use words in different ways nowadays. So what makes a person a Roman Catholic? And why have you freely chosen to be a Roman Catholic, as opposed to say, an Episcopalian?

[John Ryan]

I meant no offense John, people use words in different ways nowadays. So what makes a person a Roman Catholic? And why have you freely chosen to be a Roman Catholic, as opposed to say, an Episcopalian?

 

I believe that the Roman Church holds the practices of the Christian religion that are closest to that of the early Christian communities. I believe in the power of Eucharist as transubstantiation, as the process whereby we partake of the Body of Christ and thereby become the Body of Christ. I believe in the power of the Mass as the unity of Heaven and Earth. I am within the tradition of the historical Catholic faith, and I do not imagine myself finding a home somewhere else. The Anglican Communion is too influenced by the poor theological musings of the Reformation. I also do not care for the fact that the Anglican Communion separated itself from the unity of the body. I am all about loyal dissidence. If I have a disagreement with the Church, I do not seek to schism. 

[Guest]

Sspx let's go !!! Are you coming John ???

[John Ryan]

Sspx let's go !!! Are you coming John ???

 

It would be hilarious to be a Marxist taking Holy Communion from the Fascist SSPX.

[Maggyie]

Moritfy, I don't want to say your response is brainwashed because that's extremely disrespectful, but it makes many of the leaps and historical misjudgments common to certain groups.

If you ever do a study of the moral lives of people in Europe in the golden ages of the Church, you'll be somewhat shocked. Moderns did not invent sexual immorality including the extraordinarily common use of various forms of contraception. Nor is widespread disbelief (or more accurately, ignorance of) the real presence anything new either. My own grandfather who was raised in the teens and 1920s expressed surprise when being taught, for the first time in the 90s, about the holy Eucharist.

In addition we've had very shady popes and bishops in the past who, if they've avoided teaching heresy have done so by their fingernails and by stretching loopholes wide about infallibility for them. Pope Liberius and Pope Honorious for example. Pope Honorious was subsequently declared a formal heretic by an ecumenical council. These were regarding major heresies that were tearing the church apart - and they picked the wrong side.

I also am somewhat perplexed by your statement that the bishops are "doing nothing about it." Really? Nothing? More likely this means "not doing xyz about it." I used to be an upset traditionalist in much the same frame of mind of you, but to paraphrase, to be deep in history is to cease to be an upset traditionalist, hunting for a restoration of what never was.

[mortify ii]

I believe that the Roman Church holds the practices of the Christian religion that are closest to that of the early Christian communities. I believe in the power of Eucharist as transubstantiation, as the process whereby we partake of the Body of Christ and thereby become the Body of Christ. I believe in the power of the Mass as the unity of Heaven and Earth. I am within the tradition of the historical Catholic faith, and I do not imagine myself finding a home somewhere else. The Anglican Communion is too influenced by the poor theological musings of the Reformation. I also do not care for the fact that the Anglican Communion separated itself from the unity of the body. I am all about loyal dissidence. If I have a disagreement with the Church, I do not seek to schism. 

 

Well that's very interesting John, thank you for sharing your perspective. As you know many people believe the Roman Catholic Church has strayed heavily from the early Church, and that it needs to continue changing it's teaching to return to some sort of mythical primordial state. Many also deny the transubstantiation saying it's just another example of innovative magical-thinking applied through Aristotelian terminology, so I'm glad a platonist such as yourself can appreciate it :)

[mortify ii]

Moritfy, I don't want to say your response is brainwashed because that's extremely disrespectful, but it makes many of the leaps and historical misjudgments common to certain groups.

If you ever do a study of the moral lives of people in Europe in the golden ages of the Church, you'll be somewhat shocked. Moderns did not invent sexual immorality including the extraordinarily common use of various forms of contraception. Nor is widespread disbelief (or more accurately, ignorance of) the real presence anything new either. My own grandfather who was raised in the teens and 1920s expressed surprise when being taught, for the first time in the 90s, about the holy Eucharist.

In addition we've had very shady popes and bishops in the past who, if they've avoided teaching heresy have done so by their fingernails and by stretching loopholes wide about infallibility for them. Pope Liberius and Pope Honorious for example. Pope Honorious was subsequently declared a formal heretic by an ecumenical council. These were regarding major heresies that were tearing the church apart - and they picked the wrong side.

I also am somewhat perplexed by your statement that the bishops are "doing nothing about it." Really? Nothing? More likely this means "not doing xyz about it." I used to be an upset traditionalist in much the same frame of mind of you, but to paraphrase, to be deep in history is to cease to be an upset traditionalist, hunting for a restoration of what never was.

 

Maggie, I agree that there is no pristine ideal to return to, the Church has always been facing some problem or another. Those who think the 1950's were some ideal period are absolutely wrong, in fact part of the reason why the collapse was so thorough and virtually universal in the 60's and on-wards is precisely because of the way the things were prior to then. I suggested earlier in this thread the decay started much earlier, even a thousand years or more. So yes, I totally agree we have always faced some problem, there is no mythical time when everything was great, but at the same time I can't bury my head with regards to what's going around me. There is a popular statistic that says 70% of American Catholics don't believe in the real presence, there has also been a huge depletion in the number of priests, an even larger depletion in the number of sisters entering religious life, and mass attendance has sharply dropped. Such things in the past would warrant a synod if not an ecumenical council to address, but instead we want to believe that we're the Church of the New Advent, a new springtime and a new pentocost is upon us, and everything is ok. Well, it's not...

 

You mention Pope Honorious who may have been a private heretic, but notice he has not been canonized. We did not raise him to the altars for veneration and intercession. However in our own day, we have popes who have caused public scandal by getting blessed by shamans, kissed religious books that explicitly deny the divine sonship of our Lord, and furthermore asked St John to protect this false religion, and with no apology or explanation. Some of their writings even contain statements that can only be described as explicitly heretical, and if they were ever uttered in the past would have made them suspect of heresy and they would have been called before a tribunal to explain them-self. That was the past, now such people are canonized. So you really think we're living in ordinary times? At least in the Arian crisis the Western Church remained pure and the East had St Athanasius. Pope Honorius never defined a heretical statement and ultimately died, the Church moved on. In the Avignon crisis there was a legitimate pope, and even the anti-popes were orthodox doctrinal. And as for the extravagance and depravity of the Renaissance Popes, even Alexander VI with all his mistresses and bastard children knew the difference between orthodoxy and heresy, and in all honesty I'd much rather be subject to a weak but loyal leader like King David than someone who's got a great personality but is subverting my religion.

 

Anyway, just my two cents.

[Guest]

You hate hard hater...

[mortify ii]

You hate hard hater...

 

Don't hate the player hate the game

[Guest]

I don't hate you I just think you need to get off the Saints you know what.....

Edited May 4, 2014 by Guest

[AugustineA]

Anyone go to Mass and meditate on the readings today? There are shepherds, but they are hirelings. It's possible for the sheep to be lead by hirelings. But there is only one Good shepherd who can protect the sheep when the wolves come. 

 

I'm going to continue praying for my protestant and atheist family members, and ask you pham to pray for them too.  :pray:

 

God bless. 

[AugustineA]

For the record not all traditionalists are upset, not that you explicitly said that Maggie, but for some reason the past few weeks I keep seeing this reoccurring thread of us vs them and them vs us. A house divided against itself cannot stand. Maybe we can all grow in maturity and discuss topics relating to the Church without painting each other with such broad brushes. 

[Guest]

The Great John Paul the Second was a wolf right ? I mean he kissed the Koran........I just want to be sure of it before I join the sspx.......I could pry never pull off wearing jeans or adias pants at their mass or whatever it is either right ? God help me this is going to be soooooo tough ! I hate wearing dress clothes !

Edited May 5, 2014 by Guest

[AugustineA]

The Great John Paul the Second was a wolf right ? I mean he kissed the Koran........I just want to be sure of it before I join the sspx.......I could pry never pull off wearing jeans or adias pantaloons at their mass or whatever it is either right ? God help me this is going to be soooooo tough ! I hate wearing dress clothes !

 

 

For the record, JPII was the vicar of Christ on Earth..  

[mortify ii]

Strange that some are offended by facts of history, obviously they recognize certain actions were inappropriate to say he least. 

[mortify ii]

 

 

For the record, JPII was the vicar of Christ on Earth..  

 

Yes, he was the Vicar of Christ, and he also publicly kissed the Quran and got blessed by a shaman. 

 

Is there something wrong with our Vicar doing these things?