Graces From Protestant Services?

[Guest]

Ahhhhhhhhh quran not koran........

[mortify ii]

So when you gonna kiss the Quran publically Josh?

 

Give it a big smooch 

[HisChildForever]

Peace be with you,

 

 

No, it doesn't jive with your *personal* interpretation of Romans. 

 

"To confess the Lord Jesus, and to call upon the name of the Lord, is not barely the professing of a belief in the person of Christ: but moreover implies a belief of his whole doctrine, and an obedience to his law; without which the calling of him Lord will save no man. (St. Matthew vii. 21.)"

 

 

Instead of maybe giving me the benefit of the doubt--I've never seen the source you quoted before--I like how you pass it of as my being some rebellious, Bible-interpreting heathen. Sorry, I just felt a distinct tone in your response.

 

I'm glad you found a nice Protestant man who is supporting you in your faith and will support you in raising your children Catholic.

 

Thanks! I barely had to open my mouth about--he said he assumed all along the rascals would be Catholic. What a crazy Protestant, eh??

[mortify ii]

Instead of maybe giving me the benefit of the doubt--I've never seen the source you quoted before--I like how you pass it of as my being some rebellious, Bible-interpreting heathen. Sorry, I just felt a distinct tone in your response.

 

That is your projection of tone into my text but that was not my intention. You had suggested that St Augustine's statement had contradicted scripture and I merely wanted to point out the issue is with your personal understanding and not holy writ itself. I think St Augustine understood scripture much better than anyone here.

 

With regards to the source its from Haydock's commentary on that verse.

 

Thanks! I barely had to open my mouth about--he said he assumed all along the rascals would be Catholic. What a crazy Protestant, eh??

 

lol, well in all seriousness I'm happy you found a good person

[PhuturePriest]

Yes, he was the Vicar of Christ, and he also publicly kissed the Quran and got blessed by a shaman. 

 

Is there something wrong with our Vicar doing these things? 

 

That Vicar of Christ who kissed the Q'uran and got blessed by a shaman is also in heaven with God for an eternity. He also drew possibly hundreds of thousands of people to the Church, and inspired an entire generation of vocations to the priesthood and religious life. Lose the hardcore traditionalism and learn some humility.

[mortify ii]

That Vicar of Christ who kissed the Q'uran and got blessed by a shaman is also in heaven with God for an eternity. He also drew possibly hundreds of thousands of people to the Church, and inspired an entire generation of vocations to the priesthood and religious life. Lose the hardcore traditionalism and learn some humility.

 

I understand this is a sensitive topic, I am not here judging the Pontiff as a person, I am however pointing to certain *actions* and *statements* made in history that were never apologized for or explained. 

[PhuturePriest]

I understand this is a sensitive topic, I am not here judging the Pontiff as a person, I am however pointing to certain *actions* and *statements* made in history that were never apologized for or explained. 

 

Have you ever thought that perhaps the Pope doesn't owe you an explanation for everything he does?

[mortify ii]

Have you ever thought that perhaps the Pope doesn't owe you an explanation for everything he does?

 

Is it permissible for Catholics to venerate Islamic holy books or get blessed by pagans? 

[PhuturePriest]

Is it permissible for Catholics to venerate Islamic holy books or get blessed by pagans? 

 

Kissing something which contains fragments of God's Holy Word is not veneration, and it also doesn't deserve an explanation.

[mortify ii]

Kissing something which contains fragments of God's Holy Word is not veneration, and it also doesn't deserve an explanation.

 

Just so we have perspective, here is the incident:

 

 

Rome (Fides) – "At the end of the audience the Pope bowed to the Muslim holy book the Koran presented to him by the delegation and he kissed it as a sign of respect." This was said by Raphael Bidawid, Patriarch of Babylon of the Chaldeans who told Fides about his audience with Pope John Paul II on May 14th when he was received with a delegation composed of the Shiite imam of Khadum mosque and the Sunni President of the council of administration of the Iraqi Islamic Bank and also a representative of the Iraqi ministry of religion.

That gesture was a sign of the Holy Father’s respect for the billion and 34 million followers of Islam, as well as his eagerness to make a pilgrimage in the footsteps of Abraham, the common father of Christians, Jews and Muslims.

 

http://www.ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage.asp?number=304721&Pg=F&Pgnu=&recnu=

[mortify ii]

Patriarch said he kissed it out of "respect". 

[PhuturePriest]

Patriarch said he kissed it out of "respect". 

 

Yes. Respect. Not veneration. Not awe. Not worship. A kiss out of respect means nothing. I could kiss my atheist friend's latest book by Dawkins as a sign of respect and my sanctifying grace would remain intact.

[John Ryan]

Strange that some are offended by facts of history, obviously they recognize certain actions were inappropriate to say he least. 

 

There is a difference between being offended by history and being offended by the reification of history. The Roman Church has historically tolerated and/or sanctioned the practice of slavery, for example. The Church has justified murder in the name of faith. The spirit of Vatican II has been to rebalance the relationship between Love and History.

[AugustineA]

oi vey..  

[mortify ii]

Yes. Respect. Not veneration. Not awe. Not worship. A kiss out of respect means nothing. I could kiss my atheist friend's latest book by Dawkins as a sign of respect and my sanctifying grace would remain intact.

 

The Qur'an explicitly rejects the divine sonship of our Lord, it makes a mockery of his agony on the cross by saying the crucifixion never occurred. Furthermore, it commands Muslims to fight Jews and Christians until we all submit to Islamic dominion, and so for millenia Christians were on the defensive end of a ceaseless Islamic jihad. It is not worthy of our respect. No popes acted like this in the past, and I find such actions very grave. 

[PhuturePriest]

The Qur'an explicitly rejects the divine sonship of our Lord, it makes a mockery of his agony on the cross by saying the crucifixion never occurred. Furthermore, it commands Muslims to fight Jews and Christians until we all submit to Islamic dominion, and so for millenia Christians were on the defensive end of a ceaseless Islamic jihad. It is not worthy of our respect. No popes acted like this in the past, and I find such actions very grave. 

 

He didn't do it out of respect for the book, he did it out of respect for Muslims. This isn't really that difficult to comprehend.

 

Unless you are a person of divine authority like Pope John Paul II, I take the highlighted words with no authority and complete bias.

[Fidei Defensor]

The Qur'an explicitly rejects the divine sonship of our Lord, it makes a mockery of his agony on the cross by saying the crucifixion never occurred. Furthermore, it commands Muslims to fight Jews and Christians until we all submit to Islamic dominion, and so for millenia Christians were on the defensive end of a ceaseless Islamic jihad. It is not worthy of our respect. No popes acted like this in the past, and I find such actions very grave. 

I think you need to read a little history about the personal lives of some past popes. Have you ever heard of the Borgia family?

[mortify ii]

There is a difference between being offended by history and being offended by the reification of history. The Roman Church has historically tolerated and/or sanctioned the practice of slavery, for example. The Church has justified murder in the name of faith. The spirit of Vatican II has been to rebalance the relationship between Love and History.

 

I have no clue what you mean by your last statement. Regarding the rest of your post we have to use precision in our language. Murder is a mortal sin, when did the Church justify it? Slavery is an ancient institution that according to Aristotle is based on natural law. Slaves were typically acquired through warfare when captured men were spared rather than killed or through debt paid off through service. If Aristotle was right, slavery continues up into our own time albeit in a different form. 

[PhuturePriest]

I think you need to read a little history about the personal lives of some past popes. Have you ever heard of the Borgia family?

 

I don't think comparing such a great and holy man to the Borgia family is a good idea. However, we can compare him to Saint Francis, who befriended a sworn enemy of the Crusaders and said we shouldn't kill Muslims because it takes away the opportunity to convert them. Was that heretical and terrible?

[mortify ii]

I think you need to read a little history about the personal lives of some past popes. Have you ever heard of the Borgia family?

 

What heresies do you charge the Borgias with?