Graces From Protestant Services?

[Credo in Deum]

Yes, but what about this...

 

 

“If a future pope teaches anything contrary to the Catholic Faith, do not follow him.”

(Venerable Pope Pius IX († 1878), Letter to Bishop Brizen)

 

 

“Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ.”

(St. Athanasius († 373), Epistle to the Catholics)

 

 

“If the pope gives an order contrary to right customs, heshould not be obeyed; if he attempts to do something manifestly opposed to justice and the common good, it will be lawful to resist him; if he attacks by force, by force he can be repelled, with a moderation appropriate to a just defence.” (Francisco Suarez S.J. († 1617), De Fide, Disp. X, Sec. VI, N. 16)

 

“Just as it is lawful to resist the pope that attacks the body, it is also lawful to resist the one who attacks souls or who disturbs civil order, or, above all, who attempts to destroy the Church. I say that it is lawful to resist him by not doing what he orders and preventing his will from being executed.”

(The Doctor of the Church, St. Robert Bellarmine, S.J. († 1621), De Romano Pontifice, Lib. II, Ch. 29)

 

“For the Holy Ghost was promised to the successors of Peter not so that they might, by His revelation, make known some new doctrine, but that, by His assistance, they might religiously guard and faithfully expound the revelation or Deposit of Faith transmitted by the Apostles.” (First Vatican Council, Pastor Aeternus, cap. 4)

 

 

Please list the charges against the current Papacy.   What things have they done unlawfully?  

[Fidei Defensor]

Yes, but what about this...

 

 

“If a future pope teaches anything contrary to the Catholic Faith, do not follow him.”

(Venerable Pope Pius IX († 1878), Letter to Bishop Brizen)

 

 

“Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ.”

(St. Athanasius († 373), Epistle to the Catholics)

 

 

“If the pope gives an order contrary to right customs, heshould not be obeyed; if he attempts to do something manifestly opposed to justice and the common good, it will be lawful to resist him; if he attacks by force, by force he can be repelled, with a moderation appropriate to a just defence.” (Francisco Suarez S.J. († 1617), De Fide, Disp. X, Sec. VI, N. 16)

 

“Just as it is lawful to resist the pope that attacks the body, it is also lawful to resist the one who attacks souls or who disturbs civil order, or, above all, who attempts to destroy the Church. I say that it is lawful to resist him by not doing what he orders and preventing his will from being executed.”

(The Doctor of the Church, St. Robert Bellarmine, S.J. († 1621), De Romano Pontifice, Lib. II, Ch. 29)

 

“For the Holy Ghost was promised to the successors of Peter not so that they might, by His revelation, make known some new doctrine, but that, by His assistance, they might religiously guard and faithfully expound the revelation or Deposit of Faith transmitted by the Apostles.” (First Vatican Council, Pastor Aeternus, cap. 4)

You hold the burden of showing us what is being taught that is contrary and against the Catholic Faith.  Your last quote is exactly what I'm trying to point out—that the Holy Spirit guards the faith. The Holy Father is protected from teaching error by the Holy Spirit.

[mortify ii]

Peace be with you Basilisa,

 

Many SSPX reject Vatican II (not all, but enough to create an environment that often fosters rejecting the council), and Sedevacantists believe the last couple of popes weren't really popes. If these people really were orthodox, they'd swallow their arrogance and practice obedience. You cannot reject an ecumenical council and you cannot reject the pope. While lay people may certainly attend an SSPX parish without falling into sin (as the SSPX is really an organization for clergy), it's certainly not the safest thing to do. Lumping the FSSP in with them in the same breath blurs important distinctions between the two groups.? 

 

This is a very sensitive topic and I agree with you that humility and obedience are needed but even I read statement in Vatican II and find myself scratching my head. For example, in GS #12 it states, "According to the almost unanimous opinion of believers and unbelievers alike, all things on earth should be related to man as their center and crown." If someone had quoted this to me without the source and asked what my opinion on this would be from a Catholic perspective, I would have to say that it's blasphemous, but unfortunately it was not written in some secularist journal, rather it comes from a supposed Ecumenical Council. I struggle with examples like this, and I don't feel I'm just being "arrogant" and "disobedient." Man is not the center and crown of my life, Jesus is, and my conscience does not permit me to accept this statement even though it comes from a Council. I have not run off to the SSPX or Sedevacantists, and quite frankly I don't agree with them, but at the same time I honestly can't blame them. Who knows what the future generations will think of our times.

 

 

[mortify ii]

You hold the burden of showing us what is being taught that is contrary and against the Catholic Faith.  Your last quote is exactly what I'm trying to point out—that the Holy Spirit guards the faith. The Holy Father is protected from teaching error by the Holy Spirit.

 

Popes and theologians have taught that future Popes can teach heresy, it's not an impossibility, and our response is not one of obedience but resistance.

 

If this topic interests you there is a plethora of information online. 

[Credo in Deum]

8 pages and you have nothing to show as evidence.  Not a good start. 

[Guest]

Yes, that is true, but we also were made aware of a great apostasy and a falling away of the hierarchy.

4th time asking for an explanation...

[Guest]

I think I'll just join a non denomational church since the gates of hell will not prevail thing isn't true...Thanks for your help Mortify.....I always wanted to be non denomational anyways......I just thought remaining Catholic was what the Holy Spirit wanted......Apparently not and I shoulda listened to those who quoted Revelations a long time ago and told me "to come out out of her so I don't partake in her sins."

Edited May 6, 2014 by Guest

[Guest]

Can we get this guy a phishy label that would be nice...

[mortify ii]

What if I bow down to and kiss the Quran, Josh, would you promote me getting a Church Militant label?

[Fidei Defensor]

What if I bow down to and kiss the Quran, Josh, would you promote me getting a Church Militant label?

You're really hung up on that, aren't you?

[Credo in Deum]

What if I bow down to and kiss the Quran, Josh, would you promote me getting a Church Militant label?

 

St. Peter denied Christ three times.  Has the papacy been empty since then?  Wait do mistakes or sins void the Popes office?  Hmmm. Nope. 

[Fidei Defensor]

St. Peter denied Christ three times.  Has the papacy been empty since then?  Wait do mistakes or sins void the Popes office?  Hmmm. Nope. 

Let me go ahead and move this argument along. "What sin did the Pope commit? Is kissing the Quran a sin?" "All men are sinners." "Can the Pope do wrong?" "All men can sin, yes." "Should we be following men who kiss the Quran?" "All men sin." "Was kissing the Quran a sin?"

[mortify ii]

You're really hung up on that, aren't you?

 

I was being facetious

 

St. Peter denied Christ three times.  Has the papacy been empty since then?  Wait do mistakes or sins void the Popes office?  Hmmm. Nope. 

 

Sin does not make a Catholic lose ecclesiastical office but heresy does since a non-Catholic can't have jurisdiction over Catholics. This is a difference you have to understand because you keep repeating the same scenario. I personally do not believe formal heresy has been committed. 

[Guest]

Yes, that is true, but we also were made aware of a great apostasy and a falling away of the hierarchy.

5th time asking for an explanation....

[mortify ii]

5th time asking for an explanation....

 

I love ya man but you're trying to get me mislabeled 

[Guest]

Not at all I want to know what the hell you are talking about....

[Guest]

You were phishy before then got banned.....Then you came back as Mortify 2 non phishy but you're talking phishy again and telling people to follow their conscious and leave the Church...

Edited May 6, 2014 by Guest

[mortify ii]

Not at all I want to know what the hell you are talking about....

 

2 Thessalonians chapter 2 addresses the core of this... general apostasy and the Anti-christ reigning in the Temple which some interpret the Church. The chapter also addresses the solution, holding on to tradition (2 Thes 2:15)

[mortify ii]

You were phishy before then got banned.....Then you came back as Mortify 2 non phishy but you're talking phishy again and telling people to follow their conscious and leave the Church...

 

Look brother, you have to be precise, I never said Catholics should leave the Church. As for conscience, even the Holy Father says an atheist can make it to heaven if they follow their conscience so what is your beef?

[Guest]

2 Thessalonians chapter 2 addresses the core of this... general apostasy and the Anti-christ reigning in the Temple which some interpret the Church. The chapter also addresses the solution, holding on to tradition (2 Thes 2:15)

Ok so the safe route for me is to just join a non denomational church then......Which will be awesome and I won't have to deal with the whole mortal sin thing and worrying about if I'm going to hell everyday.... Edited May 6, 2014 by Guest