Nihil Obstat Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) Fran, I have asked for posts on that subject to be made in a thread besides this one. I would love to respond there. I would like to stay on topic in this thread, please. Should or should not a Catholic consider "gay" to constitute part of their identity as a human being? If I have missed an answer to this in our thread please direct me to it. Edited January 27, 2015 by Nihil Obstat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 The authentic Catholic response would be love.I love you. :love: Come back for chicken and waffles and beer any time -- dUSt's treat. ;) Haha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 The authentic Catholic response would be love. And since when is bringing a moral question up for intellectual debate not loving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I think, in theory, this is swell. I also think that trying to discuss something that is deeply personal only in the theoretical is going to fail. (Case in point, this thread has already sunk pretty low.) Not unusual. Isn't empathy the fundamental commandment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Fran, I have asked for posts on that subject to be made in a thread besides this one. I would love to respond there. I would like to stay on topic in this thread, please. Should or should not a Catholic consider "gay" to constitute part of their identity as a human being? If I have missed an answer to this in our thread please direct me to it. I'll make a stab. Can a Catholic or any person not acknowledge a fundamental aspect of their Id? Ignoring or denying is not productive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Historian Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Not unusual. Isn't empathy the fundamental commandment? "Jesus said to him: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind. This is the greatest and the first commandment." Our first and primary purpose and instinct is to love God and worship Him in spirit and in truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Nihil, you can start with these posts. If you've already responded, do us all a solid and paste your responses into your new response. It'll be a lot easier than following links all over the place.http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/136503-the-strange-notion-of-gay-celibacy/?p=2713751http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/136503-the-strange-notion-of-gay-celibacy/?p=2713756http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/136503-the-strange-notion-of-gay-celibacy/?p=2713763http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/136503-the-strange-notion-of-gay-celibacy/?p=2713765http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/136503-the-strange-notion-of-gay-celibacy/?p=2713773http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/136503-the-strange-notion-of-gay-celibacy/?p=2713777(I've posted links so you can quote them. If I quote them, it won't let you quote them automatically. Follow?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puellapaschalis Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I think, in theory, this is swell. I also think that trying to discuss something that is deeply personal only in the theoretical is going to fail. (Case in point, this thread has already sunk pretty low.) I disagree; we are rational beings, and capable of doing so (albeit with training). To assert otherwise is to be unnecessarily negative about human beings. All the other threads I've seen on Phatmass which broached this topic have featured people shouting down those who, like Nihil, wanted to discuss (homo)sexuality in theoretical terms, and the tone in those threads plummeted. I would dare to say that the common factor in how threads sink is a certain group of Phatmassers, not the topic, and certainly not that people want to reason dispassionately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Historian Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I disagree; we are rational beings, and capable of doing so (albeit with training). To assert otherwise is to be unnecessarily negative about human beings. All the other threads I've seen on Phatmass which broached this topic have featured people shouting down those who, like Nihil, wanted to discuss (homo)sexuality in theoretical terms, and the tone in those threads plummeted. I would dare to say that the common factor in how threads sink is a certain group of Phatmassers, not the topic, and certainly not that people want to reason dispassionately. A dispassionate discussion on these matters is absolutely necessary. I thin a certain group, the same that you have identified, siimply takes all of this too personally. But, at least for myself, I never engage them with any reasonable hope of swaying their views. They are set in their ways, they have decided, and that's that. But other people read this forum. People who are still forming their opinions, people who are struggling with coming to grips with the truth, coming to terms with an understanding of the world. I think that most people have a way of simply skimming over the maniacal hysterics of some, and the truly worthwile contributes are measured and weighed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 Nihil, you can start with these posts. If you've already responded, do us all a solid and paste your responses into your new response. It'll be a lot easier than following links all over the place.http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/136503-the-strange-notion-of-gay-celibacy/?p=2713751http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/136503-the-strange-notion-of-gay-celibacy/?p=2713756http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/136503-the-strange-notion-of-gay-celibacy/?p=2713763http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/136503-the-strange-notion-of-gay-celibacy/?p=2713765http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/136503-the-strange-notion-of-gay-celibacy/?p=2713773http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/136503-the-strange-notion-of-gay-celibacy/?p=2713777 (I've posted links so you can quote them. If I quote them, it won't let you quote them automatically. Follow?) Strikes me as kind of poor etiquette, but I will work on it. It will take a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amppax Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 And it only gets better! Woohoo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggyie Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 The original question from FP/PP was why do many gay people experience it as a big part of their identity. My (non gay but with other perma-cross) perspective is that they identify it because it's a really big deal and these are really big losses people are grieving on a way and figuring out how to deal with. Nihils response is essentially "but life is hard, why would you make the hardness part of your identity" But that's the point, hard things are hard because they are so big. Of course a massive cross is going to be a big part of who you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) "Jesus said to him: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind. This is the greatest and the first commandment." Our first and primary purpose and instinct is to love God and worship Him in spirit and in truth.31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’There is no commandment greater than these.” So back on topic, isn't empathy a fundamental requirement to live, witness, and discuss Catholic theological and personal issues? Edited January 27, 2015 by Anomaly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 Nihil, you can start with these posts. If you've already responded, do us all a solid and paste your responses into your new response. It'll be a lot easier than following links all over the place.http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/136503-the-strange-notion-of-gay-celibacy/?p=2713751http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/136503-the-strange-notion-of-gay-celibacy/?p=2713756http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/136503-the-strange-notion-of-gay-celibacy/?p=2713763http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/136503-the-strange-notion-of-gay-celibacy/?p=2713765http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/136503-the-strange-notion-of-gay-celibacy/?p=2713773http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/136503-the-strange-notion-of-gay-celibacy/?p=2713777 (I've posted links so you can quote them. If I quote them, it won't let you quote them automatically. Follow?) I am sorry, I thought those were links to old threads. That is my mistake, I apologize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Wednesday Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 We can't have nice things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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