To prop or not to prop

[Nihil Obstat]

[MIKolbe]

so, is it too late to cash in on my props? I think I earned enough for the Pope Julius II koozie.

 

 

 

this is genius

[Gabriela]

so, is it too late to cash in on my props? I think I earned enough for the Pope Julius II koozie.

[dUSt]

S/he'll more likely just stop visiting altogether, and never return. And the loss of that person is a serious loss to Phatmass, and not just IMO.

dUSt, you've acknowledged yourself that the Phorum has been poorly managed for some time. Some of the events surrounding the Great Phatmass Migration of 2015 made a lot of people feel really dismissed, like they're not important to us. If we really want to build community, I think it's important to hear out people who are so frustrated that they're considering leaving (or have already left). We can learn how to maintain a strong, positive community by listening to their stories.

I know you can't please everyone, and sometimes some people are just going to leave. That's understandable. But a publicly dismissive attitude towards those people makes a lot of people feel like they, individually, don't matter. So while trying to consider every single person's desires would make every phorum decision maddening and impossible, at least when a change is communicated to us, it'd probably be better for the community in the long term if the change were communicated gently, not in a "here's what's happening and if you don't like it you can smell of elderberries it up or leave" way.

I wish more people would complain to me, because I never hear it. I DO hear how people leave, and how people are unhappy, but I never hear why. It truly is a great mystery to me. After decoding your message, here's the feedback I'm hearing:

Some of the events surrounding the Great Phatmass Migration of 2015 made a lot of people feel really dismissed, like they're not important to us.

What events made people feel dismissed? How did it make them feel not important? I really want to change this, but it's unclear what you mean.

I think it's important to hear out people who are so frustrated that they're considering leaving (or have already left).

Do I need to make it easier for people to share their stories? Why do they not share their stories now? What can I do to improve this?

But a publicly dismissive attitude towards those people makes a lot of people feel like they, individually, don't matter.

I have a terrible memory. What did I do to make them feel this way? I truly want to correct this.

it'd probably be better for the community in the long term if the change were communicated gently

I try really hard to seek feedback from the community before any decision. Some decisions are technology based so aren't really subject to opinion. I think this is probably the most transparent forum in the Catholic world, unless I'm missing something.

 

You are right: The person I mentioned left because s/he felt dismissed by the way some decisions were made/communicated. It had nothing to do with props. But many people want that person to come back, and right now, s/he only participates by propping. Which to me suggests that eventually, s/he'd come back (maybe), if we could just keep him/her participating in some way until s/he feels "healed" from the dismissive treatment. And right now, props are that way.

Can you ask the mystery person if he/she ever tried to communicate with me directly about this matter? I am the ultimate decision maker here, so I can only assume that the mystery person felt dismissed by me--in which case, I'd like to revisit the communication between myself and the mystery person to see if I owe somebody an apology.

[dUSt]

OK, 29 people want props in some form. 10 people don't. That's nearly 3 to 1 in favor.

Props are back, but only + props. No more thumbs. We call it what it is. Props!

[franciscanheart]

I'm with Winchester.

[MIKolbe]

I still think cashing in props for random phatmass stuff would be genius...

[dUSt]

I still think cashing in props for random phatmass stuff would be genius...

Would one lose their props after they cash them in? I'll send you a t-shirt for 5,000 props. Then you'll have 2,627 left...

Or, just like "Hit 5,000 props, get a free t-shirt" type thing?

[franciscanheart]

Would one lose their props after they cash them in? I'll send you a t-shirt for 5,000 props. Then you'll have 2,627 left...

YES. Exactly.

[Nihil Obstat]

OK, 29 people want props in some form. 10 people don't. That's nearly 3 to 1 in favor.

Props are back, but only + props. No more thumbs. We call it what it is. Props!

Thank you, good call.

Dust, I know we have not always seen eye to eye, to put it rather mildly, but I like what you have been doing around here lately. I think that in the last several months, maybe in the last year or so, you have displayed a lot of genuineness and integrity, and I really appreciate that. I know my opinion does not count for much, but either way, thank you.

[MIKolbe]

Would one lose their props after they cash them in? I'll send you a t-shirt for 5,000 props. Then you'll have 2,627 left...

Or, just like "Hit 5,000 props, get a free t-shirt" type thing?

yes..

 

almost like phatmass currency...

 

maybe people would prop others more and that might be a good thing...

 

I could get you some phatmass stuff for free if you might.. like pens magnets and such...

t-shirts would be amesome too!!!

[dUSt]

yes..

 

almost like phatmass currency...

 

maybe people would prop others more and that might be a good thing...

 

I could get you some phatmass stuff for free if you might.. like pens magnets and such...

t-shirts would be amesome too!!!

Can you seriously make a Pope Julius II koozy? I think we can make that a +2500 prop item.

[MIKolbe]

 

 

[Didacus]

Ok

 

I assume this may seem like a stupid question at this point... 

But what the heck are props anyways?

[dUSt]

Ok

 

I assume this may seem like a stupid question at this point... 

But what the heck are props anyways?

I can't even.

[beatitude]

Ok

 

I assume this may seem like a stupid question at this point... 

But what the heck are props anyways?

I was going to ask what the heck a koozy is.

[Ice_nine]

I liked negative props. I was kind of mad the first time I got one, but then it kept happening over and over again and I got used to it lol (And also got used to handing them out as well).

Oh well, c'est la vie.

 

[Didacus]

I was going to ask what the heck a koozy is.

careful what you ask - you may prop an eye out.  

[Gabriela]

 

I wish more people would complain to me, because I never hear it. I DO hear how people leave, and how people are unhappy, but I never hear why. It truly is a great mystery to me. After decoding your message, here's the feedback I'm hearing:

What events made people feel dismissed? How did it make them feel not important? I really want to change this, but it's unclear what you mean.

Do I need to make it easier for people to share their stories? Why do they not share their stories now? What can I do to improve this?

I have a terrible memory. What did I do to make them feel this way? I truly want to correct this.

I try really hard to seek feedback from the community before any decision. Some decisions are technology based so aren't really subject to opinion. I think this is probably the most transparent forum in the Catholic world, unless I'm missing something.

 

Can you ask the mystery person if he/she ever tried to communicate with me directly about this matter? I am the ultimate decision maker here, so I can only assume that the mystery person felt dismissed by me--in which case, I'd like to revisit the communication between myself and the mystery person to see if I owe somebody an apology.

From my conversations with people who have left, many people felt dismissed because they weren't warned about the migration. It happened all of a sudden, was a trainwreck, and nobody helped them move over (though I tried, with copious how-to videos) when the sign-in stuff was all a disaster on the new phorum. I think that at that point, the less techy felt like they were being "weeded out", and others just felt like a top-down decision was made with no concern for how it would affect users. I recall some things being said by the admin at that time that reinforced this feeling ("deal with it"/"so learn how to use the internet" kind of comments), but I can't recall exactly what was said.

I do think you need to make it easier for people to share their stories. But I think the thread you posted last week asking people to be honest about who should get a phishy tag/be banned/etc. was a good way to do this. It let people just vent and see change as a result. Explicitly asking people on a periodic basis, "How are you feeling about how things are going/being managed on Phatmass" or "What are you upset about right now on Phatmass?" is a really good way to do this, because sometimes we just want to be brutally honest and let it all out. It's cathartic, and the climate of the phorum seems to improve in the immediate aftermath of such venting sessions (at least judging by last week's venting thread). Certainly such threads are needed when we've had some kind of crisis (like an ongoing outbreak of incivility or a trad invasion or some omnipresent obnoxious user or whatnot).

I agree that the phorum is really transparent, but that just highlights those times when decisions are made without our input. Because we're used to having a say, when we don't get a say, people get upset. Popping a change on Phatmassers without forewarning is sure to ruffle panties. And anytime things are changed—with or without our say—we need to communicate the reasons to those who didn't "get their way" gently and lovingly, with patience and understanding of their upset. And in the case of tech changes, with lots of helpfulness. (The latter is something we ALL need to take upon ourselves. If you alone did that, dUSt, it'd be a full-time job at change-times.)

"The mystery person" did contact you multiple times. If I recall correctly, s/he got no replies for a while, then a snarky, dismissive one (in his/her estimation, of course—I didn't see the original). I've asked that person to "come out" in the phorum or privately. S/he's considering it, but his/her peace of mind may be at stake, so I'm not sure what's gonna happen.

The truth is, dUSt, that sometimes your personality just puts people off. I mean, I think you're hilarious, but sometimes, especially when you're stressed out or just dealing with too much croutons on Phatmass—either technological or crowd-control—you can be really dismissive. If someone expresses a concern or says they're upset or that their feelings have been hurt, that's not the kind of thing to just brush off with a quick "Well, you can't please everyone" or similar. It's true you can't please everyone, and I understand such comments when I see you make them. Sometimes it's clear to me you're just trying to be funny, and sometimes it's clear you just don't have time to deal with every complaint that comes up. But to the person who's upset, that's personal.

Also, the turnover around here has kinda' broken a sense of community. The more turnover we have, the more cliquish it's going to get, because the veterans all know each other, and the noobs flood in, and that creates different (old vs new) relationships: i.e., (perceived, at least) "cliques". So clearly reducing turnover is a goal (though I think you obviously see that already).

There are also, as you know, sometimes massive outbreaks of nastiness. Shutting these down much sooner by stricter/more vigilant modding could prevent "community decay". When the population of Phatmass is changing rapidly and people don't yet understand one another's posting styles, because so many people (both old and new) are new to each other, these kinds of outbreaks are more likely, I think. It's then that much more important to keep watch over the phorum so that the desired tone and "culture" of Phatmass can be clearly communicated to newcomers (and so old-timers can be reminded of our values!).

I'll do what I can to get you feedback straight from the horse's mouth. I hope you know that, despite all these "complaints", I do appreciate everything you do, and I do think you do a great job. It's not perfect, but I don't imagine it's easy either. So I thank you.  

[Nihil Obstat]

Why did you not make Gabriela a moderator again? Seriously, do it. We are in no danger of having too many. She obviously cares about the community and is willing to put the work into it.