Transgender Man Here! Ask Me Anything! :)

[little2add]

Edited February 10, 2021 by little2add

[Jaime]

8 minutes ago, little2add said:

that didn't clear anything up

 

[CuriositasEtFidem]

1 hour ago, little2add said:

?

[little2add]

10 hours ago, Jaime said:

Can you tell me what you’re referring to?  Which church doctrine is clear and on what matter?

If you are a practicing Catholic I’m sure that you know the answer!

[Jaime]

9 minutes ago, little2add said:

If you are a practicing Catholic I’m sure that you know the answer!

I’m a practicing Catholic with a degree in Theology.  So please share with me the clear doctrine on “the matter” and what that matter is.

We’re kinda used to backing up our claims here

[Ice_nine]

On 2/8/2021 at 11:09 PM, CuriositasEtFidem said:

Hey there! I've decided to open this can of worms and do an AMA. I'm also new here since CAF closed down (thank goodness), so, howdy!

Let me start by laying down some points:

-I am not mentally ill for being transgender

-I am a Roman Catholic, and intend to die a Roman Catholic when the Lord calls me

It'll be an interesting thread

May I be blunt?

[little2add]

9 hours ago, Jaime said:

the matter” and what that matter is

 

[Anomaly]

On 2/8/2021 at 11:09 PM, CuriositasEtFidem said:

Hey there! I've decided to open this can of worms and do an AMA. I'm also new here since CAF closed down (thank goodness), so, howdy!

Let me start by laying down some points:

-I am not mentally ill for being transgender

-I am a Roman Catholic, and intend to die a Roman Catholic when the Lord calls me

It'll be an interesting thread

I’ve got a few questions:

What’s an AMA?

Why start off meeting people here with a subject that you know is confrontational since you comment it’s a can of worms and you open with defending your mental health?

What are your intentions in interacting with us here at Phatmass?

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Anomaly
Grammatical fussing

[Jaime]

3 hours ago, little2add said:

 

You can’t name the doctrine that is “clear” on “this matter” can you?

[little2add]

I'm not a theologian but I play one on TV

13 hours ago, Jaime said:

I’m a practicing Catholic with a degree in Theology.

 

[little2add]

Since you studied theology, perhaps you could shed some light on scripture regarding the transgenderism subject. 

[CuriositasEtFidem]

2 hours ago, Anomaly said:

I’ve got a few questions:

What’s an AMA?

Why start off meeting people here with a subject that you know is confrontational since you comment it’s a can of worms and you open with defending your mental health?

What are your intentions in interacting with us here at Phatmass?

 

An AMA is an "Ask Me Anything" (A popular thing on Reddit)

I was joking/being sarcastic, and wanted to get the assumption that trans people are somehow mentally ill out of the way before we could discuss stuff/

There aren't enough Catholic discussions with actual trans folks, so I thought I might be able to provide a new perspective. I'm not here to fight or stir up trouble  

13 hours ago, Ice_nine said:

May I be blunt?

Sure, go for it

22 hours ago, SicutColumba said:

Having said that, I would just like to know if your fellow parishioners respect your pronouns and the name that you’ve presumably chosen. 

Well, they don't really talk to me very much. I'm a quiet person, I go to Sunday Mass and Holy Days of Obligation, and I go back home. If someone happens to talk to me, I'll tell them my chosen name, and since I look (and sound, I hope) the part, they'll use he/him pronouns for me

[Jaime]

1 hour ago, little2add said:

I'm not a theologian but I play one on TV

 

 

1 hour ago, little2add said:

Since you studied theology, perhaps you could shed some light on scripture regarding the transgenderism subject. 

It's not my job to back up your arguments. that's all on you.  If you can't then just say so.  But then try to resist making declarative statements about Church teaching if you really don't know what that teaching is.

[Ash Wednesday]

10 hours ago, CuriositasEtFidem said:

An AMA is an "Ask Me Anything" (A popular thing on Reddit)

I was joking/being sarcastic, and wanted to get the assumption that trans people are somehow mentally ill out of the way before we could discuss stuff/

There aren't enough Catholic discussions with actual trans folks, so I thought I might be able to provide a new perspective. I'm not here to fight or stir up trouble  

It's very uncharted territory of discussion for many Catholics, at the very least certainly myself. Which leads me to wonder if there also needs to be more concrete pastoral guidance with the Church on the issue in the future to help us all through a confusing time.

I think there may have been one person years ago that was on here that I think perhaps had some issues with gender and there may have been some discussion about what kind of guidance he had about it with a priest, but they talked about other things in general and it was only briefly discussed on a tangent somewhat.

My ideal is for people of all walks of life to be able to come together and have rational, charitable discussions -- even among faithful Catholics online from the traditionals to the charismatics to the hip hoppers -- I've noticed that people seem to struggle to come to grips with diversity of opinion on pockets of grey that aren't always entirely settled and clear. 

For the most part -- in general if nothing else, we really love cake and tacos around here, and we fight a lot on election years. 
 

 

Edited February 12, 2021 by Ash Wednesday
Uncharted!

[Lilllabettt]

3 hours ago, CuriositasEtFidem said:

 since I look (and sound, I hope) the part

Not trying to pick on you, but this is the language of performance.  You're playing the "part" our society has assigned men to play. 

The theory of trans identity (as being normal non pathological) has never been explained to me in a way that is not sexist. 

This story was featured in local media about a transwoman in one of Chicago's neighborhoods... we were meant to applaud the courage on display. I'm not sure if I've ever been sadder or more disappointed, as a woman, in my life due to the overwhelming misogyny encoded here and presented for applause... .. https://patch.com/illinois/beverly-mtgreenwood/transition-after-70-why-transgender-woman-made-change

3 hours ago, little2add said:

Since you studied theology, perhaps you could shed some light on scripture regarding the transgenderism subject. 

Ah, you've been caught out. There's no there,  there my friend. You can make a decent argument from scripture and tradition which is what speculative theology is all about. But others can argue with you and there's nothing objective in our religion saying which is right. It's like, your opinion, man.

Catholicism has a lot fewer hard and fast rules than most people think. 

The Church hasn't said much because it needs a "why" and that is tricky. If the "why" is imprecise it could forbid cosmetic surgery. It could forbid surgery for those who have ambiguous genitalia. The Church hasn't defined what constitutes femaleness or maleness - it's only been very recently that we could peer into DNA and see sex chromosomes. Before this the determination was made looking at genitalia. Now people suggest it's brain/neuro structure. And we know a tiny % of the population has indeterminate genitalia and/or chromosomes. And indeterminate brains? So any teaching has to take into account their existence. It's difficult to say, transitioning between male and female is wrong, without first defining what female and male is - how they are objectively determined.

Very complex and difficult.  

Edited February 11, 2021 by Lilllabettt

[CuriositasEtFidem]

7 hours ago, Lilllabettt said:

Not trying to pick on you, but this is the language of performance.  You're playing the "part" our society has assigned men to play. 

The theory of trans identity (as being normal non pathological) has never been explained to me in a way that is not sexist. 

This story was featured in local media about a transwoman in one of Chicago's neighborhoods... we were meant to applaud the courage on display. I'm not sure if I've ever been sadder or more disappointed, as a woman, in my life due to the overwhelming misogyny encoded here and presented for applause... .. https://patch.com/illinois/beverly-mtgreenwood/transition-after-70-why-transgender-woman-made-change

Ah, you've been caught out. There's no there,  there my friend. You can make a decent argument from scripture and tradition which is what speculative theology is all about. But others can argue with you and there's nothing objective in our religion saying which is right. It's like, your opinion, man.

Catholicism has a lot fewer hard and fast rules than most people think. 

The Church hasn't said much because it needs a "why" and that is tricky. If the "why" is imprecise it could forbid cosmetic surgery. It could forbid surgery for those who have ambiguous genitalia. The Church hasn't defined what constitutes femaleness or maleness - it's only been very recently that we could peer into DNA and see sex chromosomes. Before this the determination was made looking at genitalia. Now people suggest it's brain/neuro structure. And we know a tiny % of the population has indeterminate genitalia and/or chromosomes. And indeterminate brains? So any teaching has to take into account their existence. It's difficult to say, transitioning between male and female is wrong, without first defining what female and male is - how they are objectively determined.

Very complex and difficult.  

I agree with you, I am frustrated by gender theory's dodging the question as to what is it to be male or to be female. 

At the end of the day, because of the lack of concrete definition on being trans by the Church, it is a sort of speculative-come-to-your-own-educated-conclusion type of thing, I guess. I fall into the more liberal camp.

As for the Chicago transwoman, her "courage" comes from her being able to openly be herself, despite the risk of jeers, general transphobia, assault, and worse, which is a sad reality for a lot of trans folks, especially transwomen. Forgive me, but I'm not quite sure where misogyny fits in here, could you please elaborate?

7 hours ago, Ash Wednesday said:

It's very uncharted territory of discussion for many Catholics, at the very least certainly myself. Which leads me to wonder if there also needs to be more concrete pastoral guidance with the Church on the issue in the future to help us all through a confusing time.

I think there may have been one person years ago that was on here that I think perhaps had some issues with gender and there may have been some discussion about what kind of guidance he had about it with a priest, but they talked about other things in general and it was only briefly discussed on a tangent somewhat.

My ideal is for people of all walks of life to be able to come together and have rational, charitable discussions -- even among faithful Catholics online from the traditionals to the charismatics to the hip hoppers -- I've noticed that people seem to struggle to come to grips with diversity of opinion on pockets of grey that aren't always entirely settled and clear. 

For the most part -- in general if nothing else, we really love cake and tacos around here, and we fight a lot on election years. 
 

 

Ah, tacos and cake. That's a unifying point I can agree with (Besides, of course, our being a family in Christ  ) 

7 hours ago, Lilllabettt said:

Not trying to pick on you, but this is the language of performance.  You're playing the "part" our society has assigned men to play. 

Nah, I don't think you're picking on me, don't worry :). For the sake of argument, if it is performance, what's wrong with that? I'm just a dude, living as one in peace

[Lilllabettt]

16 minutes ago, CuriositasEtFidem said:

Forgive me, but I'm not quite sure where misogyny fits in here, could you please elaborate?

"The choices she made were always from the perspective of a female. ' I have always tended to take jobs, and do things, that are typically for females.' "

"English described her childhood in Ohio as one of a typical "1950s girl" in a 2017 YouTube video titled "I Was Always In A Woman's Mindset."

"Helping care for babies is something she found natural. 'I was doing the things I wanted to do, and they were all female-based,' she said. 'I was so excited when my first nephew was born because I always wanted to be around babies.' "

"And each day since, she comes closer to knowing 'how it feels to be a woman.' "

"multitasking is noticeably easier, and her memory has improved immensely. Emotions are stronger, however. 'When the estrogen hits, I will get mood swings," she said. "I'll get crying spells. I'm becoming more and more sensitive to the cold.' "

"Her sexual desires changed along with the transition, too. 'What I'm attracted to sexually is very different for me,' she said. 'Now, if I see a muscular gay man, it's like nothing for me. I'm not interested. I'm now finding myself more attracted to straight men and trans men.' "

All of this is dripping with misogyny and sexism. 

There are in fact no jobs and "things" that are "for" females.  That's probably leftover sexist garbage from the 1950s. What the eff is a "woman's mindset"... what is that supposed to mean - women think a certain way??? What exactly are female-based activities? Oh, is caring for children a "female based" activity, really? It came naturally to this person, therefore that's evidence she's really a woman ... as if men don't find it natural to care for children??? Interesting that the chemicals being injected are letting her know what it "feels like to be a woman", whatever the eff that is supposed to mean. Apparently it has something to do with mood swings, and feeling cold all the time. Give me a break!!! Oh and apparently being a woman is related to being straight-  since this person was gay but now since "becoming a woman" likes straight men/transwomen. 

The article mentions she was constantly with her mother, who allowed her to act like a little girl (however little girls are supposed to act?) and that after being sexually abused by adult men she thought that was her purpose - "to please men sexually " ... interesting, I suppose that is also part of her understanding of what being a woman is as well? Pleasing men sexually?

Basically every other line in this article is red flag after red flag of internalized toxic nonsense. I want to protect little boys and girls from reading it. 

50 minutes ago, CuriositasEtFidem said:

if it is performance, what's wrong with that? I'm just a dude, living as one in peace

I mean, if reinforcing gender stereotypes is what you need to feel happy or alive, you do you.

But the fact you have this strong need to perform gender stereotypes is to me sad and depressing and evidence that society is inequitable.

For the vast majority of people in our society, gender stereotypes are corrosive and limit human flourishing. Of course if society were to heal and gender stereotypes were to dissappear, so would your "identity."  Afterall you can't play the "part" society assigns to men if there is no script provided for how men must look, sound and behave.

Basically, the existence of trans identity proves the existence of sexism. Not judging you, as it sounds like you probably got fed a lot of garbage from your parents about gender - much like the transwoman with the 1950s childhood did in this article.  In some ways trans people just rehearse the same poison we've all been fed - except for them, usually because of intervening factors (sex abuse, autism, maladjustment to non normative sexual orientation) it manifests as trans identity.  

 

[fides' Jack]

On 2/9/2021 at 6:12 PM, Lilllabettt said:

I'm sorry but this is nonsense. Gender stereotypes do not feature in natural law.  Did I skip over this in Aquinas? Can you quote me the Church's teaching on this?

What you call "gender stereotypes" is part of the natural order.  Natural law speaks derives from the natural order.  The vocabulary you employ to demean the idea of true masculinity and femininity is nothing but demonic propaganda.

On 2/9/2021 at 6:12 PM, Lilllabettt said:

However, yikes to: "truth matters more than people's lives." Yes I guess but also no. I mean, you can allow someone to live as they wish without harassment and still reject their version of reality as upside down. You can do both. Are you a psychiatrist, because your statement that "you don't treat mental illness by playing into it" isn't exactly true in every case. If mental illness is refractory to treatment, harm reduction is a viable option. I'm thinking specifically of dementia. When demented elderly people come up with nonsense, the best practice is to not argue with or correct them.  A lot of dementia patients benefit from having a doll or stuffed animal to care for as if it were real. Just 2 examples.

Truth will always matter more than people's lives.  That doesn't mean that you have to shove it in people's faces all the time.  Nor am I doing that right now.  A person is free to come to a board such as this one and bring up their baggage.  A responsible Christian will call them out on anything they say that's contrary to Church teaching - and they MUST, or they are not truly Christian.  On a public board, that's the expectation.  

The example of a dementia patient caring for a stuffed animal is a false analogy.  Nobody is telling the patient that the stuffed animal is actually alive. 

The ends do not justify the means.

On 2/9/2021 at 6:09 PM, CuriositasEtFidem said:

Not the first time I've been told I'm going to Hell lol. I believe that God created me transgender, and it's taken a very long time to crawl out of the pit of self-hatred and anxiety that religious guilt had trapped me in. I'm not going back. 

I didn't say you were going to hell.  I would never say such a thing.

I'm saying if you stay on this path that you're on, it will take you to hell.

That's a huge difference, morally speaking.

The guilt that you experienced probably came from a somewhat-informed conscience.  It sounds like you've closed off your eyes and ears to the truth.  Many theologians consider "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" to be the adamant refusal to repent.  

I'm guessing there's still a still, small voice calling to you from your soul, gently nudging you to change your life.  Maybe you've already banished it; I don't know.  If you can't hear it anymore, I would beg you to search for it, again.

I will continue to pray for you.

1 hour ago, CuriositasEtFidem said:

I'm just a dude

That's a lie.

1 hour ago, CuriositasEtFidem said:

At the end of the day, because of the lack of concrete definition on being trans by the Church, it is a sort of speculative-come-to-your-own-educated-conclusion type of thing, I guess

There is a concrete definition, though unfortunately you won't hear it from many bishops.  It's not a matter of coming to your own conclusion.  The morality of it is set in stone, and it's condemned, absolutely.

[Lilllabettt]

18 minutes ago, fides' Jack said:

What you call "gender stereotypes" is part of the natural order.  Natural law speaks derives from the natural order.  The vocabulary you employ to demean the idea of true masculinity and femininity is nothing but demonic propaganda.

There is nothing about gender stereotypes in natural law. You can't explain it because it doesn't exist. You may think it does or it should. It doesn't.  

Authentic masculinity has nothing to do with facial hair or math or pantaloons or blue. Sorry. Cosmic masculinity is about making the sacrifice play and using strength and power to protect and defend. 

30 minutes ago, fides' Jack said:

The morality of it is set in stone, and it's condemned, absolutely.

You say this but you have no back up. I'm no fan of transgenderism and if there was anything concrete and objective to back me up I'd be first in line. It doesn't exist and I think you know that. 

[fides' Jack]

10 hours ago, little2add said:

 

Throughout Scriptural history, when God's people go astray, God allows them to debase themselves to the lowest extremes in order that they might eventually find true humility.  He does this by allowing them to blind themselves to truth, to the point that they can no longer recognize even basic truths, such as what a man is, and what a woman is.

You're right, it doesn't matter, because if someone can't see this truth, there is no way to convince them.  The teachings of the Church are clear as day if they're applied properly - in every possible circumstance.  Just because some new perverse idea comes along (though this one is actually pretty old), doesn't mean that the Church hasn't ruled on the morality of it.  

If a person is blind to this, which is so obviously clear, I wouldn't trust them on any moral issue, regardless of their educational qualifications (which, to be honest, in this day and age, is an indication that one might be more heterodox than orthodox).

3 minutes ago, Lilllabettt said:

You say this but you have no back up. I'm no fan of transgenderism and if there was anything concrete and objective to back me up I'd be first in line. It doesn't exist and I think you know that. 

See above.

8 minutes ago, Lilllabettt said:

Authentic masculinity has nothing to do with facial hair or math or pantaloons or blue. Sorry. Cosmic masculinity is about making the sacrifice play and using strength and power to protect and defend.

This is the first time I've heard the term "cosmic masculinity".  What a nonsensical term...

You first tell me what "authentic masculinity" isn't, and then tell me what "cosmic masculinity" is.

We're not arguing about facial hair or math or pantaloons or blue.  We're arguing about a woman calling herself a man, and about a man calling himself a woman.  It's intrinsically evil, and you should know that and recognize that publicly.

That's what transgenderism is.  It's not about a man having feminine qualities (because almost every single man on my side of this argument would tell you that, yes, they are more feminine in ways x or y).  It's about lying to yourself and expecting the world to accept your lie.

And I won't do it.  Neither should you.