Don John of Austria Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 (edited) I find it interesting that no one has any substantive responses to my previous post (from last night). Why is that? Why are we going to the " you can't correct the Pope" arguement is it that people have finally admited thatthere was something wrong with the act, or justthatthey can't come up with a good reason why it wasn't. Edited June 2, 2005 by Don John of Austria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 I dont think it ever happened to begin with, I think that was doctored Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 the real issue of this all is not trying to correct the pope, because we cant, but if you have never ever sinned, go ahead there and throw the first stone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 [quote name='Tony' date='Jun 1 2005, 11:17 PM'] I dont think it ever happened to begin with, I think that was doctored [/quote] That's absurd. No credible source has offered such an explanation. It happened. It was bad. To admit that is not to judge the Pope anymore than admiting that Pope Alexander VI's extracurricular activities were bad would be judging him. It is the act itself that is being judged, not the culpability for said act, nor his eternal fate. Furthermore, as I said before, it is not even a Papal act that is being judged, but an act by the person who occupies the See of Peter. There is a very clear distinction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 [quote name='Tony' date='Jun 1 2005, 11:27 PM'] the real issue of this all is not trying to correct the pope, because we cant, but if you have never ever sinned, go ahead there and throw the first stone [/quote] If that is the basis for correction then we are rendered unable to point to any evil in the world, lest we be guilty of hypocrisy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 (edited) [quote name='popestpiusx' date='Jun 1 2005, 10:35 PM'] If that is the basis for correction then we are rendered unable to point to any evil in the world, lest we be guilty of hypocrisy. [/quote] I guess according to these guys, Admonishing Sinners isn't a Spiritual Work of Mercy but hypocracy. Edited June 2, 2005 by Don John of Austria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 [quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Jun 1 2005, 11:43 PM'] I guess according to these guys, Admonishing Sinners isn't a Spiritual Work of Mercy but hypocracy. [/quote] That seems to be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 God forbid I quote what Jesus taught Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krush2k2 Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 Many martyrs died for rejecting the Koran because the culture they lived in didnt hold any unity for different religions, for them it was more like kiss the Koran or die meaning symbolically by kissing it they were pledging allegiance, whereas in this culture kissing it like the pope did was basically showing respect for the Muslim leader. A kiss from the pope was not a rarity, just like shaking the hand of the enemy, doesnt mean he was pledging loyalty to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 [quote name='Tony' date='Jun 2 2005, 12:00 AM'] God forbid I quote what Jesus taught [/quote] Oh you mean like-- Luke 10 10 Whatever town you enter and they do not receive you, go out into the streets and say, 11 'The dust of your town that clings to our feet, even that we shake off against you.' Yet know this: the kingdom of God is at hand. 12 I tell you, it will be more tolerable for Sodom on that day than for that town. Yeah God forbid we do as Jesus taught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 [quote name='Krush2k2' date='Jun 2 2005, 12:20 AM'] Many martyrs died for rejecting the Koran because the culture they lived in didnt hold any unity for different religions, for them it was more like kiss the Koran or die meaning symbolically by kissing it they were pledging allegiance, whereas in this culture kissing it like the pope did was basically showing respect for the Muslim leader. A kiss from the pope was not a rarity, just like shaking the hand of the enemy, doesnt mean he was pledging loyalty to them. [/quote] We still don't hold any unity with Islam, Islam is evil, it is a religion of Lies, therefore we can have no unity with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted June 2, 2005 Author Share Posted June 2, 2005 [quote name='Krush2k2' date='Jun 2 2005, 12:20 AM']Many martyrs died for rejecting the Koran because the culture they lived in didnt hold any unity for different religions, for them it was more like kiss the Koran or die meaning symbolically by kissing it they were pledging allegiance, whereas in this culture kissing it like the pope did was basically showing respect for the Muslim leader. A kiss from the pope was not a rarity, just like shaking the hand of the enemy, doesnt mean he was pledging loyalty to them.[/quote] You speak well krush, you speak well. I did not mean this thread to antagonise anyone against one or other. I hold my beliefs dear, and my faith is strong, but I wish not the path this thread has taken. John Paul II kissing the Koran does not shake my faith, it only calls me to question it a little more - that is one of the finest things he did was to call others to question their faith, is it not? We should not look to this act and aim to judge, nor curse, nor claim truth, but to seek the reason behind it, look for wisdom in it's rightcheouness or it's wrong or both. Not look to say "this is wrong' or 'this is the way', the only one to whom we should look to for that is He who was our Lord, who still remains our Lord - let's not loose sight of that fact. Personally, I say: Remember the martyrs and their dedication to faith, hold their examples within your lives and never sway just as they have never swayed. See that to reach towards others with a hand or kiss is always better than to reach to them with a sword or hatred. And know the difference between, and when each or the other should be chosen as the correct choice. And should you fail, remember that He who knew your name before you where even conceived, will not hold upon you your sins eternally, and regardless your mistakes there is a place for you by His side, as there is for John Paul II, pope, magnus, simple priest or common man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 [quote]And should you fail, remember that He who knew your name before you where even conceived, will not hold upon you your sins eternally, and regardless your mistakes there is a place for you by His side, as there is for John Paul II, pope, magnus, simple priest or common man... [/quote] Oh he might, he might indeed, that is why there is a Hell after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 [quote]See that to reach towards others with a hand or kiss is always better than to reach to them with a sword or hatred. And know the difference between, and when each or the other should be chosen as the correct choice.[/quote] It is not always better, there is a time for war and sometimes that is the most moral Choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted June 2, 2005 Author Share Posted June 2, 2005 [quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Jun 2 2005, 12:43 AM'] Oh he might, he might indeed, that is why there is a Hell after all. [/quote] Ah yes, there is a Hell, and Hell burns hot. But the Lord does hot hold to Hell those who repent their sins, or hold those to Hell who have made simple mistakes. It takes far far more than mere mistake to earn Hell, from the little i know, I know that much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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