Masculinity of God

[Snowcatpa]

[color=purple]
[quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jun 24 2005, 07:54 PM']This sentence is poorly worded.

Although all human beings (male and female) become divine through grace (divine energy), not all men are "God," in the way that Jesus is God.  Jesus is God through the hypostatic union, and that is unique to Him.  Therefore, no one else can experience a hypostatic union.
[right][snapback]622105[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

haha, yes... yes it is... you got me there. I was trying to be as simple as possible to convey the kinda minimalist point...It wasn't that all men are God... (I didn't really know about hypostatic union till you just mentioned it, and yay for a new word learned for today ) it was just that, very simplistically (not technically): God is a Man, God is not a woman, and ... that can have implications.
[/color]

[Semperviva]

[quote name='Snowcatpa' date='Jun 24 2005, 05:46 PM']Completely valid question. Basically for two reasons, that are kind of together:

1. (Although we all know men and women are equal in dignity and value and in their different, complementary roles) It kinda makes it seem like men are better then women because God is a man and woman isn't. Man is God and Woman is not.
2. That may have real-life implications for how women are thought of or treated in the world, and how they think about themselves.
Does that make sense?
[right][snapback]622101[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

God is not a man.
Jesus [i]is[/i] true man,
and [i]also[/i] true God, who is[i] not[/i] a man. God the Father is not a man, he is just more clearly understood in this reference.
[i]All our knowledge of God is analogous, and every analogy fails somewhere[/i].

Does this affect how [i]you[/i] feel about yourself? if it does...you should just feel privaleged that God is the pursuer in the realtionship and use the analogy to increase your spirituality, rather than demote yourself, you know don't let the Evil One lie to you on this one, babe. You should read the Privalege of Being a Woman. It doesn't address this- or maybe it does I forget- but its awesome though, it will help you in any case...
and i hope you are a girl but if yer not you should read it, too

[Snowcatpa]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jun 24 2005, 07:57 PM']One thing that I would point out.  The first description I gave is not a metaphor or a simile, it is the way that God actually exists.

That being said, even the other descriptions should not be reduced to mere metaphors.  They are mystical realities, more real than anything we experience in the natural world.
[right][snapback]622107[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

[color=purple]
For certain. Point taken. Thanks
[/color]

[Apotheoun]

A note of clarification.

If anything is a metaphor or a simile it would be the human realities that we possess. They are metaphors and similes for the reality that is God.

The Eastern tradition focuses more on apophasis, and so it tends to say that God in His essence is totally other than the world; in other words, He is totally transcendent in His essence, and so nothing can be analogous to Him. It is the uncreated energies of God that enter into the world, and which manifest His presence in the world, that is in some way reflected in mankind.

[Snowcatpa]

[color=purple]
[quote name='Semperviva' date='Jun 24 2005, 08:04 PM']God is not a man.
Jesus [i]is[/i] true man,
and [i]also[/i] true God, who is[i] not[/i] a man.  God the Father is not a man, he is just more clearly understood in this reference.
[i]All our knowledge of God is analogous, and every analogy fails somewhere[/i].
[right][snapback]622114[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Totally true... but we still [i]call [/i]him a man with pronouns and references and stuff.

[quote name='Semperviva' date='Jun 24 2005, 08:04 PM']Does this affect how [i]you[/i] feel about yourself? if it does...you should just feel privaleged that God is the pursuer in the realtionship and use the analogy to increase your spirituality, rather than demote yourself, you know  [right][snapback]622114[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

I know... but it's hard! Especially when I still don't fully understand why this is all the way it is... I do keep thinking to myself... is this just the devil's snare leading you to turn against yourself, who you are, and God? You've been a great help though. And I love the tip about using God as the pursuer to increase my spirituality. About the Privelage of being a Woman - I love that stuff, trying to find value in being a womanly, woman, in all of her virtues that some feminists don't value at all. (and you're right, I'm a girl )

But that real world-implication thing is still there....and it knaws at me like a half-way done term paper the night before finals.

[/color]

[Semperviva]

[quote name='Snowcatpa' date='Jun 24 2005, 05:57 PM'][color=purple]
But that still leaves my quandry, that God is a man, which translates into real life.
[/color]
[right][snapback]622106[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
...silly girl... so calling God, father, son and h.s. by male pronouns, etc

reflects an an immaterial truth right?
--the truth that God has many masculine attributes, k.
So from that, like you said it simply it translates into the physical world..ok...so in order for us to understand God in the best way possible, its best for God, who is not male in His essence, but analagously (which I think Apoth. mentioned in diff. terms)
to incarnate the immaterial reality only as it already was -
to come as a male. God as a woman would not reflect the spiritual reality that is most accurate, I think. This is just, in my opinion, the simple reason. And if he had in contradiction to his many masculine attributes, come as a woman, guys might ask the same question you are asking, you know? (Plus their egos are so fragile they kinda needa the reinforcement like-oh-ok Jesus was a man) JK!!!!!!!!

Edited June 25, 2005 by Semperviva

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Snowcatpa' date='Jun 24 2005, 04:03 PM'][color=purple]
[. . .]  God is a Man, God is not a woman, and ... that can have implications.
[/color]
[right][snapback]622112[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
The Mother of God is a woman, the Mother of God is not a man, and ... that can have implications.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jun 24 2005, 06:32 PM']The Mother of God is a woman, the Mother of God is not a man, and ... that can have implications.


[right][snapback]622137[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

As I said in an old thread, Jesus did not have two mommies!

[Semperviva]

[quote name='Snowcatpa' date='Jun 24 2005, 06:14 PM'][color=purple]


But that real world-implication thing is still there....and it knaws at me like a half-way done term paper the night before finals.

[/color]
[right][snapback]622123[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
[i]
I AM IN LOVE WITH THE ANALOGY OR METAPHOR U USED UP THERE..I TOTALLY FELT THAT FEELING! WOOHOO[/i]-glad its gone now...

...so in the same way God wants you...
like a fat boy loves cake, like Pedro pursuing Summer, like a [i]GUY [/i]does a girl...it goes on...forever, actually...

[Semperviva]

[quote name='Semperviva' date='Jun 24 2005, 06:35 PM'][i]
I AM IN LOVE WITH THE ANALOGY OR METAPHOR U USED UP THERE..I TOTALLY FELT THAT FEELING! WOOHOO[/i]-glad its gone now...

...so in the same way God wants you...
like a fat boy loves cake:D
[right][snapback]622143[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

hahaha what a horrid analogy..from a rap song- forget that!

[Semperviva]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jun 24 2005, 06:32 PM']The Mother of God is a woman, the Mother of God is not a man, and ... that can have implications.


[right][snapback]622137[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

[i]
si. molto bene.[/i]

[Snowcatpa]

[color=purple]
[quote name='Semperviva' date='Jun 24 2005, 08:35 PM'][i]
...so in the same way God wants you...
[u][b][I] like a fat boy loves cake[/i][/b],[/u] like Pedro pursuing Summer, like a [i]GUY [/i]does a girl...it goes on...forever, actually...
[right][snapback]622143[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You CRACK me UP!!!
[/color]

[Snowcatpa]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jun 24 2005, 08:32 PM']The Mother of God is a woman, the Mother of God is not a man, and ... that can have implications.


[right][snapback]622137[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]


[quote name='Socrates' date='Jun 24 2005, 08:34 PM']As I said in an old thread, Jesus did not have two mommies!
[right][snapback]622142[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
[color=purple]

haha, right on. I understand Jesus can't have two mommies but... again...looking at it from the other standpoint... woman is the Mother, she isn't God... you know? don't get me wrong! It's AMAZING that a woman gave birth to God. But to be born into this world by a woman, the being had to be female, because on earth, female humans give birth to babies (though granted, God could've come into being from a man, or even without a human parent at all). The father is still God which makes him male... hence it circles around again... and y'all aren't answering my implications question

[/color]

[Semperviva]

[quote name='Snowcatpa' date='Jun 24 2005, 07:41 PM'][color=purple]

... and y'all aren't answering my implications question

[/color]
[right][snapback]622185[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
..like

this truth will lead to [i]what, masogyny, women's opression, loss of suffrage??? [/i]woman being put down cuz Jesus was a man???

any one who puts down woman because Jesus was a man= [color=blue][i]meeeeeesed up[/i][/color] and YOU SHOULD just tell them, listen bud- jesus was the only real feminist ever...HAHAHA
then read like John 8- the woman caught in adultery to them and show them how jesus treated the worst woman around........and then the woman at the well, and then the wedding at canaa, and then mary magdalene- u get my drift...i don't think i answered the question at all but i mean, such a person is just strange...he understands chrsitianity at like a 1st grade level...just help him or her if she's confused about it too- and let the holy spirit take over after that since [b]he's [/b]the only one that can really evangelize

Edited June 25, 2005 by Semperviva

[Socrates]

[quote name='Snowcatpa' date='Jun 24 2005, 07:41 PM'][color=purple]

haha, right on. I understand Jesus can't have two mommies but... again...looking at it from the other standpoint... woman is the Mother, she isn't God... you know? don't get me wrong! It's AMAZING that a woman gave birth to God. But to be born into this world by a woman, the being had to be female, because on earth, female humans give birth to babies (though granted, God could've come into being from a man, or even without a human parent at all). The father is still God which makes him male... hence it circles around again... and y'all aren't answering my implications question

[/color]
[right][snapback]622185[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

It seems that you won't be comfortable until the Church brings her teachings about God, or the language used to describe God, to conform more with feminist sensibilities. It ain't gonna happen.

I'm sure we'd all prefer the Church be more in tune with our own personal wishes or opinions on things (which will vary for every person), but it doesn't work that way. WE need to change our thought, not the Church. It's ultimately all about humility.

Edited June 25, 2005 by Socrates