Masculinity of God

[Semperviva]

[quote name='Snowcatpa' date='Jun 24 2005, 07:36 PM'][color=purple]
ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You CRACK me UP!!!
[/color]
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hahaha well thanks for the encouragement- i was actually getting scrupulous about it though
i was like wait--
[b][i]she'll get the wrong impression of God, [/i][/b]
she'll picture God like a giant Divine Jayzee,
and all he wants is some little clubbin hinee,
not YOU the entire body-soul composite YOU,
i was like oh no she'll think lust not love, never mind i see u got th idea HAHAHA- my analogy really fails on every level
HAHAHAHAHAHHAH

[Apotheoun]

Well, God chose to become incarnate as a male, and that is simply a fact of divine revelation. As such it cannot be changed.

But the incarnation of God empowers all human beings (males and females) to participate in the divine energies (grace), and in the process become divine.

[Semperviva]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Jun 24 2005, 08:01 PM']It seems that you won't be comfortable until the Church brings her teachings about God, or the language used to describe God, to conform more with feminist sensibilities.  It ain't gonna happen.

I'm sure we'd all prefer the Church be more in tune with our own personal wishes or opinions on things (which will vary for every person), but it doesn't work that way.  WE need to change our thought, not the Church.  It's ultimately all about humility.
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soc ra teeeeees chill man- i think she jess wanna know not make everything feminist...

[Snowcatpa]

[color=purple] I do just want to know. ... seriously.... I'm not trying to change the church, and I'm not going to be uncomfortable until I do.... I'm going to be uncomfortable until I understand.

That's what phatmass is about right? Helping people who don't understand something about Catholicism find fellowship and understanding in a community of faithful believers. I'm not trying to change anything. I just want to learn why and what that means. Humility is totally part of that, but so is [sometimes uncomfortable] discussion - as we totally all know.

I might think a little differently, and clearly have questions/opinions/trouble spots that not as many people on here have... but I'd rather ask you in a million ways a question that everyone already seems to know the answer to to find one answer that brings me closer to Christ than be content with the answers I've read and found, personally, to be incomplete.

Thanks Semperviva - [/color]

[Semperviva]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jun 24 2005, 08:05 PM']Well, God chose to become incarnate as a male, and that is simply a fact of divine revelation.  As such it cannot be changed. 

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.......yes,
But I think the question was not [i]what is[/i] the divinely revealed truth, but [i]why is it this way[/i]?

Snocat....... I love how you are just trying to get closer to Christ through your questioning...If i helped u out at all it must be the HS, not me, LOL, I'm just the mud and spit that Jesus used So are u still confused about the implications in society?

Edited June 25, 2005 by Semperviva

[Semperviva]

Snowcat- it seems the following may be some fo the reasons for your thinking:

- Simone de Beauvoir, in The Second Sex, wrote that women hate their bodies. Women are physically weaker, less clever, have less power and prestige. For men, procreation is a moment of physical ecstasy, whereas women suffer the discomfort of pregnancy and the agony of childbirth.
- Feminism is a metaphysical revolt against the characteristics of women. Men seem to have all the advantages, and so feminists try to become a caricature of men.
- Historically, women have been looked down on. Aristotle considered women deficient men. Church fathers (St. John Crysostom), poets (Milton), novelists (Hugo) psychoanalysts (Freud) have all denigrated women.
- Beauvoir wrote, "A man is a human being. A woman is just a female." She charged that the bible and the Church bear a heavy share of responsibility for the subjugation of women.
- History is the history of great men. There is no female Shakespeare or Beethoven. Even in areas thought to be women's domains, such as cooking and sewing, the greatest chefs and tailors have been men. In the biblical creation story, women seem to have been created as an afterthought.

[b]This is where its at:[/b]

- However, let us look at the same situation with the eyes of faith (feminist eyes are myopic).

Since the order of Creation was from the lowest animals to the highest, Eve's having been created last cannot be said to be an afterthought. Moreover, I prefer being created from flesh to being formed, as Adam was, from dust. Also, "helpmate" means self-giving and love, not servitude.

Consider Calvary: Jesus is betrayed by a man, and all the strong male disciples flee. On His way to the cross, Jesus is accompanied by women.

At the Resurrection, Christ appeared first to Mary Magdalene.

The Apocalyptic symbol of the Church is a woman.

In the supernatural world, women are very much in the foreground.

Abuse of women is due to original sin [b]AND NOT THEOLOGICALLY correct thinking, I might interject[/b]. [i][b]Original sin causes the following: [/b][/i]

1. Men take advantage of their superior strength.

2. We all overemphasize physical strength and achievements (i.e. exaggerated importance of sports).

3. We gage people by what they do. We value accomplishments that have no eternal significance.

- Why are men and women different?

God, in creating human beings, did not do the same thing twice.

[b]According to St. Edith Stein, the main function of woman is to protect, preserve, shelter, guard, help, bring warmth in a cold universe. i.e. to be maternal. [/b]

The full text of this is:
[url="http://www.columbia.edu/cu/augustine/arch/frear/hildebrand.htm"]vonhildebrand[/url]
I hope this helps your social implication worries...

Edited June 25, 2005 by Semperviva

[philothea]

Very nice post, Semperviva. Thanks for sharing.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Semperviva' date='Jun 25 2005, 06:10 AM'].......yes,
But I think the question was not [i]what is[/i] the divinely revealed truth, but [i]why is it this way[/i]?
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Why did the Lord die upon a cross?

[Semperviva]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jun 25 2005, 10:20 AM']Why did the Lord die upon a cross?
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...No, the question of simply why Christ is man...you said,
God became incarnate as a man, this is divinly revealed truth
...and I was just saying I think the questions were trying to understand [i]why[/i] it is that this is so...

...since Christ is most definetely [i]not[/i] a woman, snowcapta,(I think)thought it seems to be excluding woman from[i] the dignity[/i] that Christ raises humanity to in becoming human
...that's all...

another interesting thought....

[b]Feminism began in Protestant countries[/b], for the plain reason that they had turned their backs on Christ's mother, as if the Savior of the world would feel deprived of the honor given to his beloved Mother.

Edited June 25, 2005 by Semperviva

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Semperviva' date='Jun 25 2005, 09:13 AM']...No, the question of simply why Christ is man...you said,
God became incarnate as a man, this is divinly revealed truth
...and I was just saying I think the questions were trying to understand [i]why[/i] it is that this is so...

...since Christ is most definetely [i]not[/i] a woman, snowcapta,(I think)thought it seems to be excluding woman from[i] the dignity[/i] that Christ raises humanity to in becoming human
...that's all...

another interesting thought....

[b]Feminism began in Protestant countries[/b], for the plain reason that they had turned their backs on Christ's mother, as if the Savior of the world would feel deprived of the honor given to his beloved Mother.
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My point in saying what I have said is that the answer to both questions is in the inscrutable will of God, which neither of us is privy to. We can give opinions as to why both of these things happened the way that they did, based upon the connections that exist between the various mysteries of the faith, but that is about all that can be done.

[Semperviva]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jun 25 2005, 11:29 AM']My point  is that the answer to both questions is in the will of God, which neither of us is privy to.
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[i]Kopascetic.[/i] I think this answer just won't really help you get anywhere unless you are talking to people who except his will, is all, and even then, saying,

"...because...it's God's will"
as an answer is unnerving,
like when a mom or dad says "because i said so."

same idea...it never works...well it could...but the point it it just keeps the one who doesn't understand confused...
[i]IIIIIf [/i]you were dealing with a holy person, in other words not talking to me the answer "[i]God wills it" [/i]
will be way more than enough...which they would havealready internalized...

[Quietfire]

Remember something yall.
Eve was created from Adam's side.
Not his back
Not his front
Not from under his foot.

To be at his side.

No one elevates women like the Church does. Our greatest saint is the mother of God.

Stop listening to femanist lies.



Oh, and Im a woman. Just in case someone may think otherwise.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Semperviva' date='Jun 25 2005, 09:39 AM'][i]Kopascetic.[/i]  I think this answer just won't really help you get anywhere unless you are talking to people who except his will, is all, and even then, saying,

"...because...it's God's will"
as an answer is unnerving,
like when a mom or dad says "because i said so."

same idea...it never works...well it could...but the point it it just keeps the one who doesn't understand confused...
[i]IIIIIf [/i]you were dealing with a holy person, in other words not talking to me   the answer "[i]God wills it" [/i]
will be way more than enough...which they would havealready internalized...
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The whole Western mindset is that everything must be intellectually grasped and defined, but that's not the Byzantine way.

But as I said in my previous post, you can look at the interconnections between the mysteries of the faith, and that will reveal something to you. In the case of the incarnation, it does make sense that the eternally generated Son of God, would be born in time as [i]Son[/i] of God. But I think the question of "why" itself betrays a desire to know what in many cases cannot be known.

[Quietfire]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jun 25 2005, 12:50 PM'] In the case of the incarnation, it does make sense that the eternally generated Son of God, would be born in time as [i]Son[/i] of God.
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Too deep.
Wanna expand on that.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Quietfire' date='Jun 25 2005, 09:54 AM']Too deep.
Wanna expand on that.
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One can say in this case that the economy of salvation is reflecting the transcendent and eternal reality of the relationship that exists between the Father and the Son.