freewill in the eyes of a gay man

[infinitelord1]

I was 5 years old. There was this kid named jeff, who was also 5, who lived behind me. We became friends one day when we noticed each other looking at each other through the wired fence that seperated our backyards. I was holding my new machinegun that made noises when you pull the triger. He also had a gun but it was a water gun. we started to shoot at each other. Next thing you know.....we are good friends. A few months down the road i stayed the night at jeffs house. He took me into his bedroom and we hid under the bed. He pulled his pants down and showed me his penis. So of course, i showed him mine. Typical 5 year old stuff right? Well, it didnt end there. He started to show me this new thing (he must have learned it somewhere). He started to give me oral sex. So, I did it to him too. Ever since that moment........I started to show other little boys what i had learned. Including a cousin of mine. I pretty much repeated this behavior until i was about 9 or10 years old maybe even 11. Around this age i decided i wanted to learn more about females and what there privates looked like. So, i experimented with my friends younger sister. At that moment, i felt a natural sexual attraction towards her private. I am not saying that this experience was right or natural. But there was an attraction there that i had certainly never felt before. And for a while i defined myself by that experience. When i became a teenager i started to experiment with drugs. I had a low self-esteem and still do. I started to experiment with not only drugs but also sex. What I am about to tell you is very personal.......When I was 14 years old i minipulated my cousin, who is a boy, into having sex with me. He was a bit younger, and as he grew up he started to develop a hatred towards me because of this. I could never look him in the eye again, I didnt even want to be around him. Fortunately, last year, I made a trip back to Michigan, where i am from, and apologized to him. Luckily he forgave me. I learned that he had been molested not only by me but also his stepfather. Luckily he had a girl friend and was moving on with his life. Anyways that was the first and last true homosexual experience that i had. When I turned 18 I met this girl. We had a relationship for about 3 months. I had sex with her on the second day of knowing her. We continued to have sex throughout the relationship. To this day it haunts me........why was I not sexually attracted to her? Why did I not find the sex pleasurable like I did the homosexual experience. Ever since then I have moved to texas and a friend of mine started to teach me about God. I haved learned a little bit about theology. To this day, I have been questioning my sexuallity and if God exists. Its hard for me to see that we have freewill because of the issue that im going through (homosexuality). If I could choose not to feel this way anymore I would. If I could choose to feel attracted to a female I would (this is what i want but it isnt there). Now you can see why I have a hard time believing in freewill. If one of you theologians could help me with a full definition of freewill that would be nice. Also, if someone could guide me through my issue in any way that would be great also. I have pretty much done all i can think of to try to correct this issue but it is still there. I have been thinking about suicide now for about 3 years. Its that fading hope that god will heal me and his possible existence that keeps me alive. If I were able to prove that God didnt exist I would kill myself at this very moment

[Fidei Defensor]

Do not lose hope. Just trust me on this, I can feel you pain.

I will most definatly pray for you, and if you ever need to talk, just PM me.

[phatcatholic]

infintelord1.......................i think you may be setting yourself up to fail by demanding of yourself that you be able to choose to not be homosexual anymore or to be able to choose to be attracted to women.

sometimes we don't have the power to choose certain things b/c our free will is inhibited by various biological and environmental factors. the experiences that you have had seem to have definitely led you to this present place in your life. there may be a biological component as well. the degree to which same-sex attraction can be attributed to nature and nurture is a hotly contested issue. some individuals who had a same-sex attraction were able to choose the heterosexual lifestyle. some are not. others must instead choose to live a life of chastity.

regardless of the choice you ultimately end up making, there are many other more immediate choices you will need to make first. for one, you will need to gain back control of your life and this situation. it seems to have truly swept you off your feet. counseling is beneficial in this regard. once you know more about yourself, why your life has steered in this direction, what you truly feel and exactly why you feel it, you will be better equipped to make the necessary--and the right--decisions for your life.

secondly, you can begin to educate yourself on same-sex attraction, the biological and environmental factors, the nature of free will, and on the ways of the Lord. knowlede is power and as you obtain it you will be even further equipped to choose what is best for you.

right now, there are alot of decisions you can't make for yourself b/c you don't have the tools necessary to make them. you can't be expected to build a house if you have no hammer and nails. so, give yourself a break. acknowledge that, considering what all you have gone through, it is understandable to be where you are right now. the majority of individuals w/ similar experiences also end up struggling with same-sex attraction, and suicidal ideation, and the existence and nature of God. it is all perfectly understandable and, in that sense, it is ok.

but don't stop there. from the "why" you must move to the "what." once you are able to establish why your life has headed in this direction, you must move to what you are going to do about it. counseling and education help in this regard as well. you can work w/ a therapist about establishing coping mechanisms. you can make a treatment plan, and outline various goals that you would like to achieve. start small, and start w/ the most pressing matters. if you have not been eating, maybe you'll try having a sandwhich today. if you are constantly self-critical, maybe you'll try a certain form of self-talk: "i can do it" or "i am not alone." as you establish small goals for yourself, and as you begin to achieve them, you will begin to feel more and more empowered as an individual.

as you can see, i promote therapy as a useful tool during this time. you are not expected to be able to do this on your own. its ok that you are not able to. counselors are there to help you. that's why they are alive. take advantage of them. since you are so near the end of your rope, you really have nothing to lose. this forum can be helpful too, but probably not as your primary source for support. something structured and formalized where you are working w/ professionals will be much more beneficial.

as far as God goes, we can certainly help you w/ that. however, i suspect also that as you begin to resolve the internal conflicts in your life, the problems you have w/ the Lord will begin to resolve themselves as well. at least, that is my hope for you.

the peace of Christ to you,
phatcatholic

[jasJis]

infinitelord1,
The choice to be honest and open with yourself is a sign of your free will. This you have demonstrated. Free will is not omnipotence, but the ability to make daily choices and to struggle against aspects of our nature we wish to change or not follow. It's never instataneous. You will quickly find that ALL of the older phatmassers here will respond with their tales of struggle in controlling and directing their will, their urges.

It does not happen overnight. Your effort and intent counts for everything in the eyes of God. It is the plight of humanity to have choices and to have difficulty making the right choice. I too, have had to struggle with choices regarding sex, love, money, drugs, people, hatred, resentment, depression, anger, suicide, etc. Some so personal and recent that my lack of courage won't allow me to dare express them here, like you have.

I'm over 40 years old and have struggled with many things. The responses you get here will be from people who have struggled with ginormus problems like yours and they are willing to share their fears, hopes, successes and failures with you to encourage and help you.

Free will does not place you at your goal, but only the ability to choose the destination and begin your personal journey. Though I've doubted God, hated God, ignored God, chose to not believe in God, believed there was no God, and failed to thank God, I come to know that God has NEVER abandoned me, nor stopped loving me. If I could, that is what I would pray that you know. God does count our greatest sins, but He cares more and gives tremendous weight to our smallest good deed. The fact you apologized to your cousin sincerely and hoped for a better balance of good in the world is a tremendous thing that out weighs your sin. God knows that was your personal sacrifice to make things better. God understands sacrifice and shows infinite Mercy.

I wish I could carry you to your goal of peace, but that is not something we can do each other. At best, we can lean on each other and help each other, and share the journey as crippled travelers. I can offer to share and explain my hope and confidence. I pray that I can encourage you and assist you. I pray that you may realize the philosophically understand the reality of the cosmic balance of our good and bad choices and the reality of our Creator's personal knowledge of you and His intimate love for you.

May the peace and love of the Holy Spirit be ever with you, brother.

[infinitelord1]

If gay were proven biological i would not believe in god at all

[avemaria40]

Hey, just wanted to tell u im praying 4 u and u can overcome this.

[infinitelord1]

I pray to god every night that he heals me and that he blesses me with a girlfriend who i would fall in love with and be attracted to not just physically but also mentally. Is this so much to ask? Why would God not at least heal me?

[melporcristo]

I'm praying for you as well friend.
As for God answering prayers ... honestly, the healing comes from the amount of surrender that you give Christ. Have you ever read St. Faustina's Diary of a Soul by chance?

Edited July 2, 2005 by melporcristo

[Noel's angel]

although it is difficult to see why God won't give you a female you can fall in love with, you must trust Him. I am always comforted by the fact that although I don't know why I don't always get what I want, God does and I know that He is looking out for me and knows what I need. Sometimes we get blinded by what we want but we must learn to trust God, even if it is hard.

[Pio Nono]

JMJ
7/2 - Thirteenth Saturday
[quote name='infinitelord1' date='Jul 2 2005, 02:40 PM']I pray to god every night that he heals me and that he blesses me with a girlfriend who i would fall in love with and be attracted to not just physically but also mentally. Is this so much to ask? Why would God not at least heal me?
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The healing power of the Eucharist is infinite, brother. Ask Him, next time you see Him. Know of my prayers.

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='Pio Nono' date='Jul 2 2005, 04:28 PM']JMJ
7/2 - Thirteenth Saturday

The healing power of the Eucharist is infinite, brother.  Ask Him, next time you see Him.  Know of my prayers.
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Christs pill for healing homo's?

[infinitelord1]

You see guys.......this is the predicament I am in........I have dropped out of college..........I have been living off of an inheritence which is soon to run out............I have no job..........no direction in life..........this all started when this sexual issue became a problem. I started to have anxiety and even greater depression...........my hope is that god will heal me before i go into the military..........I doubt it will happen but god told me in a dream that he will help..........I dont want to be running around the showers in boot camp with a bunch of other naked men. i dont want to put myself in that position because i dont want to feel gay feelings. I despise gay feelings. It makes me despise myself. So if I am not healed by the time my money runs out I dont know what I am going to do.

Why would God not heal someone? Why would he continue to let them suffer? It cant be wrong to ask for something good. If I asked god for money so I could go out and get a prostitute I could see why he wouldnt help me there. But since I am asking for something good.......you get the picture. It even says in the bible that if you asketh you will recieveth.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='infinitelord1' date='Jul 2 2005, 01:16 PM']If gay were proven biological i would not believe in god at all
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Homosexual feelings could be biological, but that does not disprove God.

Have you ever pondered that maybe God let you have these feelings for a purpose? They in and of themselves are not a sin. Acting on them is. It is a call to chastity, to live a single live, and to not be married.

Spend more time in prayer not asking to be 'healed' or for a girlfriend, but submit to the will of God and ask him to direct you to do his will and what he wants, and things will fall into place.

[infinitelord1]

Hey Pio,

I didnt mean to offend u or anybody else by the remark I made about your post on the eucharist. I get frustrated sometimes and Anger lashes out of me. I would like you to know that i have taken the eucharist many times and it may have helped me with this issue a little.

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='fidei defensor' date='Jul 2 2005, 11:27 PM']Homosexual feelings could be biological, but that does not disprove God.

Have you ever pondered that maybe God let you have these feelings for a purpose? They in and of themselves are not a sin. Acting on them is. It is a call to chastity, to live a single live, and to not be married.

Spend more time in prayer not asking to be 'healed' or for a girlfriend, but submit to the will of God and ask him to direct you to do his will and what he wants, and things will fall into place.
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Fidei Defensor,

I appreciate ur comment but personally the idea of not getting married sickens me. God gave us freewill therefore under this idea........i dont see how god could have laid out a plan for each individual and they are supposed to do it. That idea to me sickens me. My whole life i have never felt true love from anybody. I take that back......I know my grandma loved me. I am sure my parents did too they just didnt act like it. My whole life I wanted to fall in love with a girl. Get married and move on. The idea of living celebate just frustrates me. Maybe I am demanding this but god gave us free will so i am going to take advantage of it if I can. I just want to let you people know what god already knows.........I refuse to be a priest (even if it means turning my back on god).

[jasJis]

infinitelord1,
You have to ask yourself, are you ready right now, right this minute, to meet the woman you can love for the rest of your life and maintain the relationship? Or is it not possible (even likely) that God has chosen to answer your prayer WHEN you have dealt with some other issues.

If you have grown up feeling so seperated from love, maybe you have to become more comfortable loving yourself before you are ready to love another. Maybe God has chosen wisely to wait a few months, or a year, until He knows you are ready. Why does your healing have to happen overnight when my healing has taken years?

Accept that you are imperfect, and you will be able to accept other's imperfections. Wrap your heart and mind around the fact that God accepts our imperfections and loves us any way. God doesn't HATE us for ANY of our sins. He will forgive ALL of them, even the sin of hating God. Jesus did not come to condemn, but to forgive. All we have to do ask for fogiveness. Your healing won't go far until you realize God's willingness to forgive you. Then you can begin to understand how much God loves you and begin to recognize how much healing He is working in your life.

Guilt and self hate are tremendous burdens. My experience has shown they are difficult to let go of. I thought that God wanted me or was making me carry them forever. The reality that took me way to many years to learn is that the sacrifice God wanted from me was to rip that burden off my back and leave it behind. Easier said then done. More painful than one would think.

God's healing is a process and He will cure the illness, not just the symptoms. Your hurt is more than homosexual attraction. (Which by the way is way more normal in adolesence than you think and means less than we are willing to admit.) Your true wound is rooted in people not showing you enough love and you now difficulty in accepting your love for yourself, God's love for you, and other's who may love you. Why send you a soul mate when you can't accept all their love for you. When you come to understand God loves you tremendously, right now, as screwed up and sinful and dirty as you may 'think' your are, is when you get on the fast track for the healing you're looking for.

God loves you right now. It's okay to screw up and is not a reason to hate yourself. So what if you have little direction in your life. If you are open to God actively and currently wanting something good for you, you are open to a new and positive direction. You will find it.

May you know the peace, love, and accpetance that God has for you right now.

[infinitelord1]

Its been about 4 years now since this issue has started. Im starting to get a little impatient with god as to when and if he is going to heal me.

[jasJis]

[quote name='infinitelord1' date='Jul 3 2005, 07:10 PM']Its been about 4 years now since this issue has started. Im starting to get a little impatient with god as to when and if he is going to heal me.
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"Your true wound is rooted in people not showing you enough love and you now difficulty in accepting your love for yourself,"

Do you think God loves you now?

[Jaime]

Phatcatholic is right and his opinion needs to be reasserted.

Therapy is absolutely necessary.


You will not find the peace you need online. You need to find a therapist you can trust and open up to him/her. We can pray for you but we cannot provide therapy.

[curtins]

dude:

First I will say I am praying for you and please do frequent the board here to let us know how your doing. If you ever need to talk just pm me and I'll give you my screan name.

We all screw up in life. Don't think you have been singled out and that you are the only one that has done something they will remember and regret. We all have done stuff that if we could go back we would have changed it. But the thing is you cant go back. Whats done is done. You need to focus on the future. Make a fresh start, a clean slate. Acknowledge your mistakes but put them behind you as much as you can. Trust in God. We sin because we don't trust in God. Say this prayer "Jesus, I trust in you!" Its very powerful. This would be my advice to you. Learn to love the Sacrament of Confession and use it often. Receive Communion often. Get a counsoler/ therapist to help you. Be patient. A girlfreind wont solve all your problems in a snap of the fingers. Be patient. Understand that at least for the moment you need to be celebate and find God and develope a deep and loving relationship with God first. Then you can start decerning for marriage and seeking God's will. But first get yourself stable- mentally, spiritually, and physically. Don't give up. Unite your suffering with Christ. Like Jesus said in the Gospel today

""Come to me, all you who labor and are burdened,
and I will give you rest."

Pray pray and pray some more. Prayer is insainly powerful. But dont pray for a wife- rather pray that God will help you get your life on track- pray to come to know God better and pray for him to help you make progress and to do his will. I know you will succeed- but you need to know that too. Pray to Mary and I would consider maybe getting a sort of patron saint that you can pray to who can be like your prayer buddy. I'll pray for you too and God bless