Protestantism is Heresy.

[The Joey-O]

I agree with Revprodeji, but I'd qualify it this way: the Church isn't hurting is such a way that it's lacking something crucial. It's hurting in that it's not getting all it could. In fact, it's probably missing out on a lot. We still are the Church, whole and complete. However, we could be progressing faster and better if the Roman Catholics were rejoined with Protestants.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 5 2005, 03:57 AM']I disagree, I mean I agree with you that the church has some in these areas, but I feel that there are better theologians/writers out there that the church is hurting because they are not in our fold. I guess its the hurt from being fractured
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how is the Church "hurting" Protestant theologians? You make it sound like the Church is cutting them off from the fold when they either never were part of it in the first place, or they cut themselves off.

[The Joey-O]

I don't think anyone's disagreeing with you on that one, photosynthesis.

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 5 2005, 03:58 AM']you mean its a time thing? is that why im not a militant yet?
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what she means is that you can't judge my status based on one post and you haven't been here long enough to know that my entire body of work here warrants the designation. honestly, i don't like drawing attention to it b/c i am really nobody special. but i did work hard for it (i'm the only phatmasser here who has the designation w/o also having some type of formal training in theology or philosophy) b/c i wanted access to the Q&A board so that i could help more people. and they don't just give it to anyone. of the 2500 or so members here, only around 10 of them are called "Church Scholars".

pax christi,
phatcatholic

[N/A Gone]

no..the church is hurting for not having those as its own, like a carpenter missing a few tools. he can get the job done, but it would be better with those tools.

cut themselves off? Please..

[N/A Gone]

phatty...I love ya...u know it, I was hurt by your statement as well, but I guess it is where your heart is and I need to know that for future dialogue

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='The Joey-O' date='Dec 5 2005, 04:03 AM']I agree with Revprodeji, but I'd qualify it this way: the Church isn't hurting is such a way that it's lacking something crucial. It's hurting in that it's not getting all it could. In fact, it's probably missing out on a lot. We still are the Church, whole and complete. However, we could be progressing faster and better if the Roman Catholics were rejoined with Protestants.
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I agree that Catholics and Protestants have a lot to learn from one another. However, at this point merging the two is not going to work, because that would involve some kind of mutual sacrifice of identity and a compromise. Not going to happen, and I don't think it should happen.

[N/A Gone]

it can happen in the future, but first we need to respect each other and realise the gifts that both parties bring to the table.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 5 2005, 04:05 AM']cut themselves off? Please..
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um, how would you describe the Reformation then? If Protestants didn't want to be separated from the Catholic Church they wouldn't be protesting.

[N/A Gone]

reformation..luther wanted to reform, y'all kicked him out, tried to kill him, it became a social uprising backed by goverments, idiots like calvin showed up and developed a theology that is equal to anarchy. ironically the church reforms many of the things luther had issues with(*cause luther did not want a formal split, as much as a sanctuary until the church reformed and than return) but now we have eccesiologocal differences and dont like each other much.

sound good? as a catholic I would protest against what the church was doing than. Conscience and simple reason would still need to be justified

[The Joey-O]

It just seems like you guys seem like you don't respect the Protestant theologains and writers enough to pick up their work. Especially in America, there work represent the by far majority of books sold and even discussed at theological seminars. Yet, you guys are, for the most part, ignorant of their stuff. One of the reasons why I became Catholic was because Catholics don't insulate themselves from culture. Yet, you guys insulate yourselves from Protestants?

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 5 2005, 04:08 AM']it can happen in the future, but first we need to respect each other and realise the gifts that both parties bring to the table.
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I think that a merger would actually be disrespectful to both parties.

For Protestants to merge with the Catholic Church, that would be disrespectful to their claims that each individual has the right to interpret the Bible as they want. That would be disrespectful to the "autonomy" that they try to have.

For Catholics to merge with Protestants, that would be disrespectful to our belief that Sacred Tradition was given to us from God to show us what is and isn't true. The Church has the right to say who is and who is not Catholic, and to be more inclusive of "Catholics" or "Christians" who have bought into lies means being accepting of the lies.

[N/A Gone]

in Ut Unum Sint, JPII speaks of how the works in the protestant church has aided and influenced the catholic church.

[jmjtina]

[quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 5 2005, 03:18 AM']in Ut Unum Sint, JPII speaks of how the works in the protestant church has aided and influenced the catholic church.
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Our Late Holy Father, Pope John Paul II in no way has ever elevated it above the Doctors and saints of the Catholic church or put them on the same level. The message is clear, no compromise, but we must work and help each other. there is truth there yes, but no compromise on what we believe.

Edited December 5, 2005 by jmjtina

[The Joey-O]

Protestants aren't protesting anymore. Almost all of them lost the understanding of visible unity 100 years ago. (And they're not consciously rejecting visible unity, either, they just don't get it and probably haven't heard of it). I know I had no concept of it, before going to Bible College (and my Bible College is the most academic Bible College in accredidation through the HSEA (HCEA???)), so I doubt if most Bible College students have ever heard of it.

[The Joey-O]

Oy! Oy! Protestants aren't uniform in their opinions! You can't say things like, it would be "disrespectful to their claims that each individual has the right to interpret the Bible as they want". That's not Protestantism. That's Fundyism. I would have been shot dead before saying something like that.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 5 2005, 04:13 AM']reformation..luther wanted to reform, y'all kicked him out, tried to kill him, it became a social uprising backed by goverments, idiots like calvin showed up and developed a theology that is equal to anarchy. ironically the church reforms many of the things luther had issues with(*cause luther did not want a formal split, as much as a sanctuary until the church reformed and than return) but now we have eccesiologocal differences and dont like each other much.
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you make him out to sound like some sort of holy martyr. Please. The ecclesiological differences exist for a reason. If the Catholic Church didn't excommunicate Luther, then it would have been tolerating heresy and the spread of untruth.

Basically, the Catholic Church tells it like it is. You're either Catholic, or you're not. If you're out there calling yourself Catholic and saying things that are not consistent with Catholic teaching, yes, the Church will denounce you and the things you say. I find nothing wrong with that.

[quote name='The Joey-O' date='Dec 5 2005, 04:14 AM']It just seems like you guys seem like you don't respect the Protestant theologains and writers enough to pick up their work. Especially in America, there work represent the by far majority of books sold and even discussed at theological seminars. Yet, you guys are, for the most part, ignorant of their stuff. One of the reasons why I became Catholic was because Catholics don't insulate themselves from culture. Yet, you guys insulate yourselves from Protestants?
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Don't assume. I used to be on the Executive Board for InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, so I was very well-versed in all the stuff IVPress put out.

[N/A Gone]

also, the autonomy isnt like you would think. The different denominations develop their own eccesiology, with the exception of the free churches these eccesiologys often follow patern with each other. Most protestants just want biblical justification.

Photo.."merger" or "unity" should be the top priority for every believer because it is what Christ prayed for in the garden and it is the chief concern for paul.

[The Joey-O]

Nobody's "elevating" Protestant theologians above that of the Fathers and the Doctors of the Faith. Unity doesn't mean recreating Catholicism. It doesn't mean going against the established orthodoxy, the faith of the Church. A lot more Protestants would either convert or work toward furthering reunion if they understood Catholicism and stakes at risk for being divided.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='The Joey-O' date='Dec 5 2005, 04:24 AM']Oy! Oy! Protestants aren't uniform in their opinions! You can't say things like, it would be "disrespectful to their claims that each individual has the right to interpret the Bible as they want". That's not Protestantism. That's Fundyism. I would have been shot dead before saying something like that.
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personal interpretation of Scripture goes under Sola Scriptura, which is one of the 3 tenents of Protestant theology.