How Do We Attrack More Protestants To Phatmass.

[Budge]

[quote]know plenty of people who converted to the Catholic faith from being "Bible Christians" in "the real world" independent of the internet. These include both my parents, and phatmassers on here (who converted before phatmass), as well as famous apologists such as Scott Hahn, and countless people you've never heard of.

In fact, the vast majority of converts I'm aware of did not convert from internet debates or websites (many having converted long before the internet). Internet conversions seem more an exception than the rule (though it is another means of conversion available in our time).

Implying that people don't convert to Catholicism from evangelical Christian churches outside of phatmass and the internet is one of the most ignorant or thoughtless statements I have seen.[/quote]

Scott Hahn was never a Bible Christian.

sadly I tired of Catholics claiming that the Presbyterian church is evangelical, maybe in the days of Chiniquay, but today, NO way.

Presbyterianism has become so watered down that one of its major branches...Presbysterian USA, could give the United Methodists a run for their money in embracing modernism and liberalism.

Scott Hahn was in some small group of Presbyterians, an off shoot as it were but never held Bible Christian or fundamentalist beliefs. {Presbyterians today do not hold to the Bible literally}

Even Mark Shea claims he was an evangelical but reallly was in a college campus group led by one man that preached anything but historical evangelical beliefs or even fundamentalist ones, especially since as he has admitted this group did not believe in a literal second coming of Christ.

One can get converted outside or even on the nets. I know when I was reading the Bible and studying it, I encountered the truth on the internet while still Catholic.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1263675' date='May 3 2007, 11:10 PM'][Double post - ignore][/quote]

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Budge' post='1264091' date='May 4 2007, 08:11 AM']Scott Hahn was never a Bible Christian.

sadly I tired of Catholics claiming that the Presbyterian church is evangelical, maybe in the days of Chiniquay, but today, NO way.

Presbyterianism has become so watered down that one of its major branches...Presbysterian USA, could give the United Methodists a run for their money in embracing modernism and liberalism.

Scott Hahn was in some small group of Presbyterians, an off shoot as it were but never held Bible Christian or fundamentalist beliefs. {Presbyterians today do not hold to the Bible literally}

Even Mark Shea claims he was an evangelical but reallly was in a college campus group led by one man that preached anything but historical evangelical beliefs or even fundamentalist ones, especially since as he has admitted this group did not believe in a literal second coming of Christ.

One can get converted outside or even on the nets. I know when I was reading the Bible and studying it, I encountered the truth on the internet while still Catholic.[/quote]
It must be nice to be able to distance yourself from all the other "Christians" out there. Then you don't have to deal with the awkward questions when someone makes a mistake. They just aren't "Bible Christians." Whatever that is.

[N/A Gone]

[quote name='Budge' post='1264091' date='May 4 2007, 09:11 AM']Scott Hahn was never a Bible Christian.

sadly I tired of Catholics claiming that the Presbyterian church is evangelical, maybe in the days of Chiniquay, but today, NO way.

Presbyterianism has become so watered down that one of its major branches...Presbysterian USA, could give the United Methodists a run for their money in embracing modernism and liberalism.

Scott Hahn was in some small group of Presbyterians, an off shoot as it were but never held Bible Christian or fundamentalist beliefs. {Presbyterians today do not hold to the Bible literally}

Even Mark Shea claims he was an evangelical but reallly was in a college campus group led by one man that preached anything but historical evangelical beliefs or even fundamentalist ones, especially since as he has admitted this group did not believe in a literal second coming of Christ.

One can get converted outside or even on the nets. I know when I was reading the Bible and studying it, I encountered the truth on the internet while still Catholic.[/quote]


Do me next, Do me next (*little kid jumps up and down holding their mom's hand asking to ride the pony)

[Guest T-Bone]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1264115' date='May 4 2007, 07:54 AM']It must be nice to be able to distance yourself from all the other "Christians" out there. Then you don't have to deal with the awkward questions when someone makes a mistake. They just aren't "Bible Christians." Whatever that is.[/quote]

I'd love to be as filled with the Holy Spirit as Budge. I mean, she can even tell who's a real Christian or not.



(Never mind all that garbage Jesus said about, "Judge not, lest you be judged.")

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Revprodeji' post='1264138' date='May 4 2007, 09:40 AM']Do me next, Do me next (*little kid jumps up and down holding their mom's hand asking to ride the pony)[/quote]


Oh, come on ... it's too easy. Not only were you never a Christian, but you aren't one now. Doesn't matter that you prayed the prayer, or were baptized, or whatever you did -- you're only a Christian if Budge says you are.

[quote name='T-Bone' post='1264139' date='May 4 2007, 09:41 AM']I'd love to be as filled with the Holy Spirit as Budge. I mean, she can even tell who's a real Christian or not.
(Never mind all that garbage Jesus said about, "Judge not, lest you be judged.")[/quote]
I know! She has special glasses that allow her to see the state of others' souls, and endow her with special knowledge about what it means to be a Christian. Soul Rays (tm).

[thessalonian]

[quote]Scott Hahn was never a Bible Christian.[/quote]

You say that in retrospect but you would have loved him on the day that he destroyed his grandma's rosary and said "yep, he's a true Christian all right. Saved for sure" and you both would have had a great conversation about OSAS.

[thessalonian]

[quote name='GodChaser' post='1263539' date='May 3 2007, 07:58 PM']I've got a suggestion.

Perhaps you should give them the respect to acknowledge they are already saved by the grace of God and being a Catholic isn't a requirement for salvation.[/quote]

Because indifferentism is condemned by the Church and rightly so. Such statements are a denial of the efficacy of the eucharist which is Christ's body, blood, soul, and divinity.

[johnnydigit]

Scott Hahn was never a Bible Christian? kinda like how non-denominational churches aren't protestant right..

seriously. [img]http://www.mdshooters.com/images/smilies/smack.gif[/img]

no, no, seriously. [img]http://ganjataz.com/01smileys/images/smileys/smack.gif[/img]

for real this time. [img]http://www.awesome-sauce.net/images/smilies/smack.gif[/img]

no, no wait. [img]http://www.salongeek.com/images/smilies/Smack_2.gif[/img]

ok, you win. [img]http://www.theperch.net/discussion/images/smilies/smack.gif[/img]


it's funny because it's like a cartoon.

[Budge]

You folks dont realize the difference between [b]MAINLINE Prot churches[/b] and fundamentalist or evangelical churches?

Presbyterians even hold to the same ECFs, you do and some of the councils if not all.

Please learn the difference between mainline Protetantism and the Bible Christian world {Pentes, fund. Baptists, evangelicals--[not neo-evangelicals like Joel Osteen]

Presbysterians do not hold to fundamentals anymore. Yes there are a FEW CONSERVATIVE EXCEPTIONS...[just like you folks with the Trads] but the majority do not hold to the inerrancy of scripture etc.

or other uses, see Mainline (disambiguation).
P[quote]
In the United States, the mainline (also sometimes called mainstream) denominations are those Protestant denominations with a potpourri of conservative, moderate, and liberal theologies. [b]The hallmark of the mainline churches is moderation. Their theologies tend to be moderate and influenced by higher criticism, consciously or not. Ministers and members of mainline churches generally are comfortable with modern language and inclusive language translations of the Bible.[/b]

{ANOTHER WORD FOR MODERATION IS LUKEWARM}
[b]
They tend to be open to new ideas and societal changes[/b] without abandoning what they consider to be the historical basis of the Christian faith.[1] [b]This places them to the left of the more conservative fundamentalist and evangelical churches.[/b] They have been increasingly open to the ordination of women. They have been far from uniform in their reaction to gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transsexuals, though less dogmatic on these issues than either the Catholic Church or the more conservative Protestant churches. Mainline churches take a moderate view with regard to military service—all provide chaplains to the United States armed forces and none are historically peace churches except the Church of the Brethren—but all express reservations about aggressive use of military force for any reason.
[u][b]
Mainline churches tend to be ecumenical in outlook, often belonging to interdenominational and interfaith organizations such as the National Council of Churches and World Council of Churches.
Contents[/b]
[hide][/u]

* 1 Beliefs
* 2 Use of the term mainline
* 3 Mainline denominations
* 4 References

[edit] Beliefs

Most mainline denominations follow the traditional Christian belief in the triune nature of God, but do not require strict acceptance of everything written about or spoken by Jesus in the New Testament. In particular, some mainline Christians do not accept the biblical statement of John 14:6 that Jesus represents the sole legitimate path to God.

Many believe that the Bible is God's Word, while remaining open to new understanding of it. Few would suggest that the Bible was verbally and plenarily inspired as some biblical inerrantists maintain. That view holds that the Bible as we have it is the result of God's Holy Spirit directly revealing His words to its authors. There is a general consensus that scripture must be interpreted both through the lens of the cultures in which it was originally written, and examined using God-given reason. Neither of these methods are believed to diminish the importance of scripture or are indications that scripture is not the revelation of God's Word.[2]

While most mainline denominations accept the virgin birth of Jesus, few would demand acceptance of that doctrine as a prerequisite for membership.

[edit] Use of the term mainline

The term mainline may imply a certain numerical majority or dominant presence in mainstream society that is no longer accurate. The Association of Religion Data Archives (ARDA) counts 26,344,933 members of mainline churches versus 39,930,869 members of evangelical Protestant churches.[3]

The inclusion of a denomination in the mainline category does not imply that every member of that denomination, nor even every member of their clergy, accept some of the beliefs generally held in common by other mainline churches. All of them allow considerable theological latitude. However, each mainline denomination has within it a Confessing Movement or renewal movement which is more conservative in tone.

Some denominations with similar names, and historical ties to mainline groups are not considered mainline. For example, while the American Baptist Churches, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, and the Presbyterian Church USA are mainline, the Southern Baptist Convention, Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod, and the Presbyterian Church in America are too conservative to be regarded as mainline denominations.

[edit] Mainline denominations[b]

The Association of Religion Data Archives considers these denominations to be mainline:[3]

* American Baptist Churches in the USA 1,442,824 members (2001)[4]
* Armenian Apostolic Church / Catholicossate of Cilicia
* Armenian Apostolic Church / Catholicossate of Etchmiadzin
* Apostolic Catholic Assyrian Church of the East, North American Dioceses 120,000 members (1989)[5]
* Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) 804,842 members (2001)[6]
* Congregational Christian Churches, (not part of any national CCC body)
* Netherlands Reformed Congregations 9,395 members (2001)[7]
* Macedonian Orthodox Church: American Diocese
* Episcopal Church
* Estonian Evangelical Lutheran Church
* Evangelical Lutheran Church in America 5,099,877 members (2001)[8]
* International Council of Community Churches 200,263 members (2000)[9]
* Latvian Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
* Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches 44,000 members (1998)[10]
* Moravian Church in America, Alaska Province
* Moravian Church in America, Northern Province 24,650 members (2003)[11]
* Moravian Church in America, Southern Province 21,513 members (1991)[12]
* National Association of Congregational Christian Churches 65,569 members (2000)[13]
* North American Baptist Conference
* Presbyterian Church (USA) 3,455,952 members (2001)[14]
* Reformed Church in America 285,453 members (2001)[15]
* Religious Society of Friends (Quakers)
* United Church of Christ 1,359,105 members (2001)[16]
* United Methodist Church 8,298,145 members (2001)[17][/b]

The largest U.S. mainline churches are sometimes referred to as the Seven Sisters of American Protestantism. [18] The term was apparently coined by William Hutchison[19] in reference to the major liberal groups of American Baptists, Disciples of Christ, Congregationalists / United Church of Christ, Episcopalians, Lutherans, Methodists, and Presbyterians during the period between 1900 and 1960.

The ARDA has difficulties collecting data on traditionally African American denominations. Those churches most likely to be identified as mainline include these Methodist groups:

* The African Methodist Episcopal Church
* The AME Zion Church
* The Christian Methodist Episcopal Church[/quote]


Are there some saved Christians in these churches?

Sure. [irregardless of the nonsense their churches are feeding them] since salvation by faith is taught in some of them, their are those who come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

I used to visit a Free Methodist church [conservative branch of Methodist church] in my old community, did Bible study there. {I was firmly in my old church but had friends there. There were saved Chrsitians there--people who showed fruits of salvation., but sadly their church was teaching more and more falsehoods, especially after Rick warren and pals showed up.

[Guest T-Bone]

Budge, you are so filled with the Holy Spirit. Please instruct me on how to tell a real Christian, so I can be judgmental too.

[Budge]

Wow, T-Bone, youre showing such sweetness...

can you take your posts beyond...[grr that bad catholic bashing budge, grr grr]



Gods doing the judging not me.

That means people are going to be saved DESPITE ROTTEN CHURCHES.

They are still commanded to COME OUT OF HER, with the Prot members including.

[Guest T-Bone]

[quote name='Budge' post='1264369' date='May 4 2007, 01:00 PM']Wow, T-Bone, youre showing such sweetness...

can you take your posts beyond...[grr that bad catholic bashing budge, grr grr][/quote]

Sure, if you take your posts beyond "I'm a perfect person, and my misconceptions about the Church are the truth, even though it has been explained to me numerous times that I'm wrong, yet I persist in the claim that I'm infallible in everything, blah blah blah

[quote]


Gods doing the judging not me.

[/quote]Then stop saying that people aren't Christians.

[quote]

That means people are going to be saved DESPITE ROTTEN CHURCHES.

They are still commanded to COME OUT OF HER, with the Prot members including.[/quote]

And into Budgianity?

[Captain_Fantastic]

[quote name='thessalonian' post='1262760' date='May 2 2007, 06:37 PM']I really think that we should get more protestants to come here and discuss the Catholic faith. How do we get more of them here? [/quote]

I don't have a suggestion on what you can do, but see the thread below on what NOT to do:

Gay Bishop Says No To Ultimatum
[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=65203"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=65203[/url]

In essence, treat others and their religious faith with respect. I sensed a major judgmental attitude in the above thread, and many people don't take too kindly when outsiders decide to stick their noses into the internal affairs of their particular sect or religion.

Captain
-agnostic-

[N/A Gone]

[quote name='Budge' post='1264357' date='May 4 2007, 02:44 PM']You folks dont realize the difference between [b]MAINLINE Prot churches[/b] and fundamentalist or evangelical churches?

Presbyterians even hold to the same ECFs, you do and some of the councils if not all.

Please learn the difference between mainline Protetantism and the Bible Christian world {Pentes, fund. Baptists, evangelicals--[not neo-evangelicals like Joel Osteen][/quote]

Couple things.

1.) You have found a way to disqualify everyone but you.

2.) I grew up in an evangelical church, I have an evangelical academic bible college degree (I will tommorow..woot-woot) I was and am as evangelical as you could imagine. How am I not your lose end that you can not tie up? Would you argue my "flavor" of evangelical was not " bible" as yours? Would you argue I did not put enough active effort into it? How do I directly fit in your great teaching?

3.) You hold to the same ECF's, you rebel and whine about them. But you believe in a triune God, you believe in the canon of scripture, you believe Christ was divine and human, you dont honor history. You steal from it.

p.s. I cant Stand Joel Osteen either...what a misjustice that he gets popular and a book like "Embrace and Exclusion" by Volf does not.