Kindergartners To Be Taught Homosexuality, Bisexuality, And Transsexu

[carrdero]

[quote]SJP writes: And that's the problem, our society has lost its moral compass. [/quote]I don’t remember homosexuality, bisexuality and trans-sexuals being proved immoral. Unnatural maybe, but not immoral?

[quote]Socrates writes: So should kindergartners also be taught about the joys of incest, pedophilia, bestiality, sado-masochism, necrophilia, and rape?[/quote]
Are there joys in these things? I would believe that the joys of sex are best expressed and realized when all adult members are in consent. I would think it difficult to discern the agreement of a bleeting sheep or a flailing corpse.

Edited May 29, 2007 by carrdero

[Aloysius]

[quote name='VaticanIILiturgist' post='1283162' date='May 29 2007, 01:36 AM']Why does SEX get people so enraged? Why not big and immoral business? Why not sexual abuse by ministers and poor handling of it by bishops? Why not poor clerical formation? Why not governmental corruption? Where is the just agner over those issues? Why is it almost always SEX that gets people upset?[/quote]
I don't know. Of the things you mentioned, I get mad about the ones with clear vilains; I have just anger against sexualy abusive ministers, especialy with the youth, and big busines (that's gudge) and big and currupt government (that's hudge) and the bishops and the poor seminary formaion.

I get most enraged when there are things that cause little children to stumble; things that affect children are by far the most heinous. this includes what is being discussed here and all forms of sexual abuse especially the clergy.

other than when children are involved, though, sex issues tend not to enrage me that much; though I do find them very important to discuss; issues of sexual morality and radical economics are some of my favorites.. I also enjoy great games of speculative theology and how to apply it to the framework of church teaching. again, go ahead and start topics......... it's just human nature, though, that people tend to be more intersted in sex topics. it's not an orthodox catholic thing, it's just that orthodox cahtolics approach it from moral considerations............ but everyone talks about it. at colleges, they put "sex" in class names to drum up interest; at conferences, they do so for titles of speeches. like the anthropology conference i went to this year. sex his and sex that...1 speech was entitled "Transexuality in a post 9/11 World". no joke.

but this one isn't about all that, it's about undermining parents and exposing young children to things that we believe are morally evil. this is about just anger against the government corrupting of youth. if they were OLDER and the curriculum offered both the best arguments for and against these lifestyles, i woudl not be as angered.

[carrdero]

[quote]Aloysis writes: I don't know. Of the things you mentioned, I get mad about the ones with clear vilains; I have just anger against sexualy abusive ministers, especialy with the youth, and big busines (that's gudge) and big and currupt government (that's hudge) and the bishops and the poor seminary formaion.

I get most enraged when there are things that cause little children to stumble; things that affect children are by far the most heinous. this includes what is being discussed here and all forms of sexual abuse especially the clergy.[/quote]
This is why I feel it is important to inform children. Children who are confused or misunderstanding about sex may be involved in a situation that they may feel is out of their control. Nothing could be more intimidating than complying with an elder (that they have been taught to respect and listen to) involving a position that they clearly have no business being in. Parents have such an innocent, protective view of their children that they really never expect to have to explain these precautions to children because they are pure or they believe that these instances would ever happen to their children. As history has proven that even the most respected, up-standing members of society could be a concern to their children. Teach them, teach children before it happens, not after.

Edited May 29, 2007 by carrdero

[johnnydigit]

farmers and bestiality. don't they get a voice too?

[img]http://209.85.62.26/5714/179/emo/Amy_Sheep.gif[/img]

[Aloysius]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1283207' date='May 29 2007, 03:34 AM']This is why I feel it is important to inform children. Children who are confused or misunderstanding about sex may be involved in a situation that they may feel is out of their control. Nothing could be more intimidating than complying with an elder (that they have been taught to respect and listen to) involving a position that they clearly have no business being in. Parents have such an innocent, protective view of their children that they really never expect to have to explain these precautions to children because they are pure or they believe that these instances would ever happen to their children. As history has proven that even the most respected, up-standing members of society could be a concern to their children. Teach them, teach children before it happens, not after.[/quote]
teach them that homosexuality, transexuality, and bisexuality are normal and acceptable lifestyles that some people may choose to live out? or teach them that if anyone touches them inapropriately that it is not their fault and they should tell their parents or teachers or the police. the former is its own form of sexual abuse of minors; the latter is good safety tips that I am not oposing (though pesonaly, i want my children to get all their sex and danger education at an early age from me and do not trust the educatoin system to do the job)

[carrdero]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1283214' date='May 29 2007, 02:55 AM']teach them that homosexuality, transexuality, and bisexuality are normal and acceptable lifestyles that some people may choose to live out? or teach them that if anyone touches them inapropriately that it is not their fault and they should tell their parents or teachers or the police. the former is its own form of sexual abuse of minors; the latter is good safety tips that I am not oposing (though pesonaly, i want my children to get all their sex and danger education at an early age from me and do not trust the educatoin system to do the job)[/quote]
I was specifically addressing the concerns of the paragraphs quoted.

[SJP]

[quote]carrdero writes: I don’t remember homosexuality, bisexuality and trans-sexuals being proved immoral. Unnatural maybe, but not immoral?[/quote]Well what is your standard of proof when it comes to questions of morality. Are you talking about scientifically verifiable "proofs", because if that's the case, I can't think of any moral norms that can be "proven".

So what is your standard of proof?

[quote]carrdero writes: Are there joys in these things? I would believe that the joys of sex are best expressed and realized when all adult members are in consent. I would think it difficult to discern the agreement of a bleeting sheep or a flailing corpse.[/quote]

What if there are people who do find joy in such activities, who are you to deny them.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Mercy me' post='1282219' date='May 27 2007, 04:13 PM']Isn't it nice when are schools are doing such a great job that they can add thing to the regular curriculum? Ignore the giant pool of sarcasm.

The truth of the matter is that US schools are falling further and further behind the rest of the world and no one knows why. Could it be that instead of reading, writing, math and science we are teaching this garbage?[/quote]
Yes, I would be nice if, instead of waisting time with social brainwashing, we would worry more about math scores.

[quote name='carrdero' post='1282255' date='May 27 2007, 05:38 PM']LOL, Apples, pears and grapes exist but I wouldn't exactly call them oranges.

Those issues that you pointed out I would inform children as early as possible. If just to make them aware that these things happen. I am not supporting that school faculties teach kids how to teach kids how to murder, rape or commit adultry but just to teach kids that they exist. I don’t necessarily believe that there is a factor of age anymore. The sooner a child is informed the better. The children of today are not as naïve or immature as they were 20 years ago. They are learning how to right script in kindergarten (I didn’t learn this until the third grade!!) and how to use computers and they are more curious than before. Kids have questions, teachers teach kids.[/quote]

Wrong, wrong, wrong... you couldn't be more wrong.....


[quote name='Budge' post='1282530' date='May 28 2007, 08:54 AM']Homeschooling all the way![/quote]


[quote name='Akalyte' post='1282789' date='May 28 2007, 07:29 PM']Now there is something we agree on! My wife is pregnant too so i'm really thinking about homeschooling.[/quote]
Start reading.

[ofpheritup]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1282332' date='May 27 2007, 06:20 PM']The Bible in not a required textbook in public school systems. Even if it was part of the curriculum it would be severely outdated.
Regardless of some people's heterosexual preference, homosexuality, bi-sexuality and trans-sexuality happens. It happens everyday, it is happening right now, with no evidence of a sentencing, punishment or judgment from a Higher BEing.[/quote]


How is the Bible outdated?
I thought God was Eternal, hence (yes, I said hence) His Word is Eternal.
You know, "one size(word) fits all."

No evidence ?
Sodom and Gomorrah anyone?

Edited May 29, 2007 by ofpheritup

[carrdero]

[quote name='SJP' post='1283246' date='May 29 2007, 08:15 AM']Well what is your standard of proof when it comes to questions of morality. Are you talking about scientifically verifiable "proofs", because if that's the case, I can't think of any moral norms that can be "proven".

So what is your standard of proof?[/quote]
A difficult question that I think no one human should have to answer for everyone. I do not believe that there is any scientific method to measure morality so we would most likely have to rely on our own personal principles, understanding and/or experiences in the way that kindness individually presents and/or expresses itself to us. In the example of homosexuals, bisexuals and trans-sexuals there is no evidence that has been offered or compiled to/by/for me to suggest that these sexual preferences are inherently evil or entirely incorrect even when they are compared to the practice of heterosexuality.

[quote]SJP writes: What if there are people who do find joy in such activities, who are you to deny them.[/quote]
I do not possess the authority or occupy a position to deny or judge these individuals but I am fully aware that there are officials appropriately designated for such purposes.

[carrdero]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1283249' date='May 29 2007, 08:19 AM']Wrong, wrong, wrong... you couldn't be more wrong.....[/quote]
I noticed by the extended periods that there may have been something else you wanted to add. Do you need a moment to elaborate on why I could be so wrong or did you just feel better by letting that out?

[homeschoolmom]

The idea that there isn't "a factor of age anymore" is wrong (if I understand what you are trying to say. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that). And the idea that "the sooner a child is informed, the better" is wrong. Learning how to write scripts is not the same thing as processing complex ideas on sexuality.

Sorry to have been unclear.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1283274' date='May 29 2007, 10:07 AM']A difficult question that I think no one human should have to answer for everyone. I do not believe that there is any scientific method to measure morality so we would most likely have to rely on our own personal principles, understanding and/or experiences in the way that kindness individually presents and/or expresses itself to us. In the example of homosexuals, bisexuals and trans-sexuals there is no evidence that has been offered or compiled to/by/for me to suggest that these sexual preferences are inherently evil or entirely incorrect even when they are compared to the practice of heterosexuality.[/quote]

So every person as their own judge of morality?

So if I think "might makes right" and I want your possessions, I shoot you and take what I want.

[SJP]

[quote]carrdero writes: A difficult question that I think no one human should have to answer for everyone. I do not believe that there is any scientific method to measure morality so we would most likely have to rely on our own personal principles, understanding and/or experiences in the way that kindness individually presents and/or expresses itself to us. In the example of homosexuals, bisexuals and trans-sexuals there is no evidence that has been offered or compiled to/by/for me to suggest that these sexual preferences are inherently evil or entirely incorrect even when they are compared to the practice of heterosexuality.[/quote]

So you're an advocate of relativism. "I'll do what's best for me, you do what's best for you." The adoption of such a position makes it impossible to determine the "Truth" of any moral norms. There can be no Truth, because people create their own Truth. Relativism requires amorality. There can be no good or evil because there is no standard. The relativist can never say something is good or evil, he betrays himself. If morality is based on individual preferences, who are we to judge another person's actions. Murder, rape, theft may all be True and good for someone, but the relativist must remain silent.

I'm going to butcher a quote I heard once:

"The relativist/atheist need not believe in God or moral absolutes to be a humanitarian or lover of culture. Of course not, in exactly the same way that the great grandchild of a multi-millionaire who has set up a wonderful trust fund has no need to worry about paying his rent. It was the original capital that provided the revenues. Atheists/relativists committed to morality and social justice are simply people who chose not to grow the equity, but to live off the returns of the beliefs of their forebears.

[carrdero]

[quote name='ofpheritup' post='1283263' date='May 29 2007, 08:50 AM']How is the Bible outdated?[/quote]

It was written in and by the perception of primitive scribes and combined by the ancient idealistic endeavors of biased scholars which severely limits the foresight, wisdom and enlightenment that we have all come to understand as GOD. If I want to be informed and updated on the latest and most current developments, I wouldn’t pick up a newspaper from the Renaissance period.

[quote]ofpheritup writes: I thought God was Eternal, hence (yes, I said hence) His Word is Eternal.[/quote]Well then if GOD is Eternal, I’m sure you wouldn’t have any problem agreeing with me that the Bible is unfinished.

[quote]ofpheritup writes: You know, "one size(word) fits all."[/quote]
Yes, well before you outfit me for one of those latex gloves, I’d like to introduce you to an amazing concept called the fingerprint.

[carrdero]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1283309' date='May 29 2007, 10:00 AM']So every person as their own judge of morality?

So if I think "might makes right" and I want your possessions, I shoot you and take what I want.[/quote]
One of the easiest lessons to learn in this physical existence is that people will do whatever they want to do. If someone wants to shoot me for my possessions they will do so with absolutely no regard or fear for God, the law or society. Now, if I may use cmotherofpearl as an example, I (personally) know that she would not shoot me because I know for a fact that any consequences that she could imagine that could occur to her as a result from her shooting me for all my possessions would not be convenient or in agreement with her lifestyle and her custom style of living but free will dictates that cmotherofpearl does indeed have the ability to try to shoot me for my possessions (if she so desires). Free will also dictates that the fact that I know cmotherofpearl won't shoot me at this moment can change by tomorrow (either way I'm locking my doors).

Edited May 29, 2007 by carrdero

[Aloysius]

actually, carrderro, I do have a desire to shoot you and take all your possessions... I have lots of college debts to pay. fear of God absolutely does stop me. I don't fear the law so much, though.

but back to my point: how does teaching about transexuality, bisexuality, and homosexuality (the only things discussed in this legislation) help children who are in confusing sexual situations where someone older is abusing them? it does not.

other than that, the decisions about how to deal with children who have desires of transexuality or bisexuality or homosexuality should be left up to the PARENTS at this stage of their life. No one has the right to tell anyone else's child, when they are in kindergarten, that they might need a sex change operation. even IF all that were morally okay, and you are quite convinced that we cannot know whether or not it is, such a thing should not be allowed to be exposed to children at that age.

we have to stop sexing up young children and let them be KIDS. This legislation is only different in DEGREE to sexual molestation as far as I can tell. It's a different degree of sexually mollesting them by sexing up minds which are not even hormonally active yet.

You teach them that if someone touches them inappropriately, that is wrong, and all those types of safety things; but you don't teach them all about sex when they're kindergartners.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1283334' date='May 29 2007, 10:32 AM']we have to stop sexing up young children and let them be KIDS.[/quote]

[carrdero]

[quote]SJP writes: So you're an advocate of relativism. "I'll do what's best for me, you do what's best for you." The adoption of such a position makes it impossible to determine the "Truth" of any moral norms.[/quote]The Truth comes in two forms, Personal and Universal. In no better example is this better shared or explained than in the composition of music. Two people abiding by the Universal laws in which music is constructed and composed can come up with two completely different personal compositions by following the same Universal musical notations. Truths can change as well as beliefs. Before 1960 the Truth was that we could not put a man on the moon, today that Truth has been changed. “I’ll do best for me because what is best for me may not be best for you.” You say that milk is good for you and you know that truthfully milk is good for your body. I will not disagree with you but I will truthfully explain to you that I am lactose intolerant. The same “widom”, “Truth”, “enlightenment”, animal sacrifices, stonings that “God” decreed to ancient societies might have been fine for them but I live in a new era, a new generation, with new prospects, challenges and experiences and yet I am still lactose intolerant.

[quote]SJP writes: There can be no Truth, because people create their own Truth.[/quote]
Who should know us better than us and GOD? Do you know me better than me or GOD?

[quote]SJP writes: Relativism requires amorality. There can be no good or evil because there is no standard. The relativist can never say something is good or evil, he betrays himself. If morality is based on individual preferences, who are we to judge another person's actions.[/quote]There is no one who should judge another person’s actions. Not one person possesses the full understanding and breath of another individual’s life or existence to place or affix a judgment. How can one possibly make a judgment on a movie that they have not completely seen? One of the reasons why people feel that they should be entitled to be so judgmental is because they cannot be in evidence or are impatient of God’s judgment. A man who kills another person is tried before a jury of his peers. Yet this is not enough. What some people really want to see and be witness to is what God is going to do about it but it is never revealed. For all we know, GOD could not have any standard of right or wrong, good or bad, moral or immoral but one thing is for sure, people certainly feel the need to make judgments on other people.

[quote]SJP writes: So you're an advocate of relativism.[/quote]
Judgment.

Edited May 29, 2007 by carrdero

[Aloysius]

this is not about all that. this is about a government institution teaching kindergartners that homosexuality, bisexuality, and transexuality are good potential lifestyles.