My Diocese Doesn't Want Me

[catholicinsd]

[quote name='Slappo' post='1411239' date='Oct 29 2007, 07:44 PM']Franciscan University of Steubenville has a pre-theologate program that does not require a particular diocese or religious order to sponsor you. It is meant for youth discerning the priesthood either diocesan or religious order. The formation at Franciscan University can help you discern whether or not you really do want to be a priest for your diocese, or another diocese, or for a religious order. The formation can also help form you into a holier man who would then (being older, more mature through 4 years of undergrad and formation) be a more likely candidate for your diocese.[/quote]

With all respect, I cannot afford FUS

[Slappo]

[quote name='catholicinsd' post='1411572' date='Oct 30 2007, 01:04 PM']With all respect, I cannot afford FUS[/quote]

Neither can probably 80% of the people going here. The pre-theologate program also has a donor that covers $5,000 a year for pre-theologate students. Different diocese's have different policies on student loans, and so do different religious orders. I'll say this flat out though, as someone trying to enter the priesthood, the amount of benefactors that can be found is numerous. There are non-profits, there are friends and family, parishioners of diocese's, and several other places to find financial help if you are later accepted to a religious order that does not accept student debt, or a diocese that does not accept it. Some organizations will take on all of your loan payments until final vows, and upon final vows, will pay your loans in full. Some benefactors will simply donate money to support you. Who said becoming a priest is easy? The life of a priest is even harder.

If you aren't willing to put forth an EXTREME amount of effort to become a priest, than how do you ever expect to survive once you are ordained?

Read "The Priest is Not His Own" by Archbishop Fulton Sheen (Servant of God). That will tell you what the life of a priest is all about, and none of it is easy.

Just FYI, I'm coming to FUS on complete loans. I have roughly $45,000 taken out and I am in my junior year. I'll graduate with 70,000-80,000 in loans. I'm looking into the priesthood as a possibility. As to how the debt will be managed? That is in God's hands. If I feel called to the priesthood, and the financial aid I need doesn't show up when I need it, than maybe I need to wait another year before entering novitiate, or maybe that's a sign for me to look at other vocations.

God bless,
Marcus

[Slappo]

I should add, the real question isn't as to whether or not you can afford somewhere, it is whether you are called somewhere. If you are a child of God, and doing His will, the question is what can your Father afford? His pocket book is one of infinite grace, and that can pay for much more than any billionaire. Whether or not that grace comes financially or not isn't up to you, or me.

[johnnydigit]

i noticed there are other things going on in the thread, but i wanted to address this red flag that first caught my attention:

[quote name='Noel's angel' post='1365706' date='Aug 21 2007, 10:47 AM']Maybe your last post might help explain things...

Everything will work out, in time.[/quote]

[quote name='stlmom' post='1365684' date='Aug 21 2007, 10:33 AM']I see--that must really sting--will pray that you can work through this disappointment. Do you have an SD that can help you?[/quote]

[quote name='catholicinsd' post='1365686' date='Aug 21 2007, 10:34 AM']Not really.[/quote]

[quote name='catholicinsd' post='1365705' date='Aug 21 2007, 10:45 AM']With everything that just, happened I really couldn't care less.[/quote]

[quote name='Noel's angel' post='1365706' date='Aug 21 2007, 10:47 AM']Maybe your last post might help explain things...

Everything will work out, in time.[/quote]

i think it may be possible that the fact you don't have a spiritual director means you are still in the early stages of discernment, and possibly the early stages of the spiritual life. these things can be very obvious and so that's probably why you were rejected, for now.

continue to pray (to be content and accept these types of things he does to you), discern, and grow. there's no reason why you can't apply again in the future. maybe God was telling you to slow down so you can learn and experience more things first, rather than dive right in. maybe he needs you to be a part of a plan to help others somehow first. He'll reveal to you later why this needed to happen and it'll all make perfect sense.

so don't worry. know that in pain and hurt He is helping you to grow, He is chiseling a saint out of you. relax and have a snickers bar. just let it pass with time. instead of thinking, "why oh why?" try thinking, "hm. ok. well i'm shocked. whatever you say God. so.. what next?"

pax de Cristo.

[Maria]

[quote]Here a fifth point emerges that we must bear in mind before discerning: with respect to future possibilities, we cannot discern whether we should do something, but only whether we should try to do it. The idea may sound strange at first, but it makes perfect sense, as the following example shows. A young man—call him George—should understand himself to be discerning not whether he is called to marry Susan, but only whether he is called to try to do so. For, as noted earlier, God never asks us to do the impossible; and if Susan says no, then it is clearly impossible for George to marry her, which means that God is clearly not calling him to do so. Even if Susan is unreasonable or heartless in saying no, her refusal still makes it clear that God is not calling George to marry her. However, this does not mean that George's discernment was wrong. As long as he believes that God is calling him only to try to marry Susan, then he should not assume he made a mistake if she refuses. But he was mistaken if he concluded definitively from his discernment that God was calling him actually to marry Susan. The same point obviously holds true if George discerns that he should try to enter a seminary to study for a certain diocese. As long as George realizes that he is called only to try to do this, then he need not assume he made a mistake if he is not accepted.

These observations make it clear that some vocational paths require the consent of more than one person. Failing to bear that in mind can lead to a great deal of bitterness and disillusionment. George might be tempted to think, “Susan (or the bishop) is preventing me from fulfilling my vocation!” He might even be tempted to turn away from God, thinking either that God deceived him or that, despite his best efforts, his discernment was mistaken. These problems can be avoided by realizing that God calls us only to try. Unfortunately, many fail to realize this, and they set themselves up for serious problems.

This point holds true not only when discernment requires someone else's consent, but whenever we discern. After all, we do not know the future, and we could die at any moment. The real possibility that we could die before we carry something out or that other things could intervene and make something impossible should warn us not to conclude that we are definitely called to do something in the future, but only that we are called to try to do it. Often enough, all God wants is the effort; and if we make the effort, we produce the results he desires. If George does his best to discern, then he can rightly conclude that for some reason, God wants him to put the question to Susan or the vocations director. Doing that much is part of God's plan, and he will use George's cooperation in the lives of those involved, even if the answer is no or George dies later that day.

If we remain detached from our own agenda, we do not set ourselves up to be disillusioned and will not be tempted to conclude that God is deceptive or capricious. We must be absolutely committed to carry out whatever we discern, be detached from everything else, and not assume that we have discerned more than God has disclosed to us. It is not easy to be committed to God's unfolding will and detached from our own; one reason it is so difficult may be that we want our lives to make sense within the context of this world. When we spend time discerning and our efforts to do what we have discerned fail, our lives seem not to make sense. If, after discerning, George asks Susan to marry him or the diocese to accept him as a seminarian and he receives a negative response, his effort seems futile. His sense of futility will be even greater if Susan or the diocese says yes initially and no later on, or if circumstances intervene so that George cannot marry Susan or be ordained for the diocese after all.[/quote]

[catholicinsd]

My parish priest is leaving this parish pretty soon, I believe

[catholicinsd]

Interesting turn of events, the Ast. VD who rejected me and I are now Friends on Facebook.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

I know this has been a painfully difficult time for you, and you have my deeply felt sympathy, but I think that you may be misinterpreting the VD's decision.

It is very doubtful that he declined you because he dislikes your personality and never wants to hear from you again. It is much more likely that he declined you because he doesn't think you are suitable for the seminary - [i]yet[/i]. That's not to say that you won't make a fine seminarian five years from now. It just means that you aren't ready at this moment. Given that the rejection most probably wasn't a calculated insult, why should it be surprising that the VD has accepted you as a Facebook friend? Have trust. I'm sure everything will turn out perfectly, in His time.

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='catholicinsd' post='1422199' date='Nov 19 2007, 02:33 PM']Interesting turn of events, the Ast. VD who rejected me and I are now Friends on Facebook.[/quote]
How is that an interesting turn in events? Maybe I'm nutty but I'm pretty sure the AVD didn't deny your request to enter seminary based on personality conflict. I'm sure he LIKES you. He just doesn't believe, at this time, that you're a fit for the seminary.

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1422457' date='Nov 19 2007, 06:15 PM']I know this has been a painfully difficult time for you, and you have my deeply felt sympathy, but I think that you may be misinterpreting the VD's decision.

It is very doubtful that he declined you because he dislikes your personality and never wants to hear from you again. It is much more likely that he declined you because he doesn't think you are suitable for the seminary - [i]yet[/i]. That's not to say that you won't make a fine seminarian five years from now. It just means that you aren't ready at this moment. Given that the rejection most probably wasn't a calculated insult, why should it be surprising that the VD has accepted you as a Facebook friend? Have trust. I'm sure everything will turn out perfectly, in His time. [/quote]
Much better said. Thank you.

[catholicinsd]

I was recently sent information on the Divine Word College- how they got my information is a mystery to me. Anyone know anything about them?

[catholicinsd]

Ok, so basically I thought I'd let ya'll know that this childish dream of mine is dead.

[Deus te Amat]

Why? If it is God's call for you, it will never be dead.

[catholicinsd]

Well, for the last year, or so- when I received that letter, I haven't heard God.

[dominicansoul]

It's okay...you don't hear God right now...I can't possibly know what's going on inside of you....we all go through spiritual dryness, some of us question our Faith, lose a bit of grace, etc.....

...but you must believe....God hears you loud and clear...

...and hopefully, there will be a moment that comes in your life when you realize that God is madly in love with you...

...that will definitely change your attitude and your life!

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='catholicinsd' post='1589188' date='Jul 2 2008, 06:31 PM']Well, for the last year, or so- when I received that letter, I haven't heard God.[/quote]
I'm no expert, but perhaps it's simply that God wants you to pursue Him even more. To follow Him even when you don't hear Him, to continue down that path He set before you. After all, Bl. Theresa of Calcutta didn't hear God for quite a while, and I'm sure there are many Saints who felt that at times.

[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1589311' date='Jul 2 2008, 08:40 PM']It's okay...you don't hear God right now...I can't possibly know what's going on inside of you....we all go through spiritual dryness, some of us question our Faith, lose a bit of grace, etc.....

...but you must believe....God hears you loud and clear...

...and hopefully, there will be a moment that comes in your life when you realize that God is madly in love with you...

...that will definitely change your attitude and your life![/quote]

[daveybe]

For encouragement: a True Story...

My Uncle is a Franciscan, but he first applied to our home diocese. They diocese refused him on the grounds of his school grades. So he went to the Franciscans in NYC, who turned him down for the same reason. Eventually he found the Franciscans in Pennsylvania, and they accepted him but with a whole ton of conditions (summer school, academic probation, etc).

He is now an ordained priest, an effective pastor of two parishes, and his people absolutely love him.

[DominicanPhilosophy]

The fact that you got denied acceptance into seminary last year is a great opportunity to grow in holiness! If you have a spiritual director, be talking with him/her about this, of course. Instead of encouraging you with stories and words of wisdom, think about the great chance you have to grow close to Christ. Jesus suffered on the Cross and He is still accepting and will always accept whatever pains of your own you offer up to Him. Also, those who suffer are closest to God; think about how horribly Christ suffered, but take note of how close He was to God!

Denial is simply a part of human life, and one we must be willing to accept and move forward with, learning and growing from the decisions made in our lives that we ourselves cannot change. You can continue to grow in your relationship with God and if your vocation truly is to the priesthood, you will be aware of that and not let a simple "no" from your diocese dishearten and trump you. If you aren't called to be a priest, that's perfectly ok! Matrimony is beautiful and the married life is a hugely important state of life, as is single life!

So, before publicizing that "your diocese doesn't want you," hopefully you really prayed hard to figure out what it is God wants of you. Honestly, seminary is seven years of study, and if you were swayed so easily away from God - as you stated that you hadn't really been able to find God lately - maybe you should consider your motives for wanting to enter and if you yourself feel that you could handle the lifestyle. People will insult you about your vocation and if you become a priest, you will most likely get harassed, especially if you ever go on Marches for Life, etc., but you have to be willing to defend that, not shy away from it.

God bless you, and I will pray for you and your vocation; please pray for me, too!

[EricTheRed]

[quote name='catholicinsd' post='1589188' date='Jul 2 2008, 01:31 PM']Well, for the last year, or so- when I received that letter, I haven't heard God.[/quote]

It is hard to hear God, Humble yourself in Prayer and "Let Go Let God"

Pray the Rosary Bro!!!

[Brother Ed]

[quote name='EricTheRed' post='1595674' date='Jul 8 2008, 10:09 PM']It is hard to hear God, Humble yourself in Prayer and "Let Go Let God"

Pray the Rosary Bro!!![/quote]

Just keep praying and spend time in adoration. God talks to us in so many different ways. There is a saying,
"The door maybe closed, but somewhere, God leaves a window open."
So, please open your heart more to him......
I was turned done by three communities at first, then I was accepted by the Capuchins in Pittsburgh, I only stayed 2 years, but was invovled in parish ministry for 26 yrs..... and four years ago, I was praying and I really felt the biggest tug in my heart,which I pushed aside for all those years. I knew what was going on.... and I listened. I entered the community that I am in today, and I have never been happier.....

So, please, keep your heart open, pray!!!! God is still talking to you

Pax et Bonum,
Br. Ed

[Guest KevinSymonds]

[quote name='DominicanPhilosophy' post='1595645' date='Jul 8 2008, 09:24 PM']The fact that you got denied acceptance into seminary last year is a great opportunity to grow in holiness! If you have a spiritual director, be talking with him/her about this, of course. Instead of encouraging you with stories and words of wisdom, think about the great chance you have to grow close to Christ. Jesus suffered on the Cross and He is still accepting and will always accept whatever pains of your own you offer up to Him. Also, those who suffer are closest to God; think about how horribly Christ suffered, but take note of how close He was to God!

Denial is simply a part of human life, and one we must be willing to accept and move forward with, learning and growing from the decisions made in our lives that we ourselves cannot change. You can continue to grow in your relationship with God and if your vocation truly is to the priesthood, you will be aware of that and not let a simple "no" from your diocese dishearten and trump you. If you aren't called to be a priest, that's perfectly ok! Matrimony is beautiful and the married life is a hugely important state of life, as is single life!

So, before publicizing that "your diocese doesn't want you," hopefully you really prayed hard to figure out what it is God wants of you. Honestly, seminary is seven years of study, and if you were swayed so easily away from God - as you stated that you hadn't really been able to find God lately - maybe you should consider your motives for wanting to enter and if you yourself feel that you could handle the lifestyle. People will insult you about your vocation and if you become a priest, you will most likely get harassed, especially if you ever go on Marches for Life, etc., but you have to be willing to defend that, not shy away from it.

God bless you, and I will pray for you and your vocation; please pray for me, too! [/quote]

I can not agree enough with the above wise words from DominicanPhilosophy. I have found quite a comfort in recent times with St. Thomas' theology of the religious state as presented in Fr. Richard Butler's book "Religious Vocation: An Unnecessary Mystery." [b]GET THIS BOOK[/b]!

I would like to put my two cents into this discussion concerning some practical advice that I've obtained through some very hard-earned experiences and further reflections.

The first thing concerns college. [b]Debt does not help entrance into the religious state/priesthood[/b]. Do not, I repeat do NOT go into debt if you can avoid it. I do not care if people promise you the sun, the moon and the stars. If you can avoid it, do not go into debt. Remember, the Bible frowns upon going into debt as you become a slave to the lender. Slavery is unbecoming to the dignity we have as children of God, delivered from the bondage of slavery to sin and who live under the law of Grace.

Numerous Dioceses and religious communities were caught unprepared for the changes that were to happen in society and culture since 1960. One of those changes was the number of people attending college. The numbers went up and this has left more people in debt. The Church was unprepared for this dynamic and it has hurt potential candidates to the priesthood/religious state. There is no money to help potential candidates with college debt, only a few Dioceses were smart--one in particular that I know of--and made some financial investments to create a fund precisely for this purpose. Most Dioceses/communities will tell you to pay off your debts first and if you have a whopping amount such as $80,000 I hope your desire to enter the religious state/priesthood has longevity because that is what you'll need to sustain you through the long years of paying that debt.

All of us need to understand the above dynamic because it is the reality of the situation the Church is in today and we need to know how to act maturely as Catholics to ward against making bad and foolish decisions on our part. One bad decision would be to go into college debt with a vocation in mind hoping for benefactors or just plain old, "God will provide."

Our country is slipping dangerously close to an economic recession. Those benefactors might be a little hard to find within the next year or two. Also consider the fact that when you sign off on that paperwork to receive college loans, it is YOUR responsibility to pay them, not a benefactor's. It is a matter of [b]pride[/b] to think that just because you may or do have a vocation that some nice benefactor(s) will come along and pay YOUR debts. If I were to have a good amount of money and wished to sponsor a candidate to the priesthood/religious state, I would never sponsor someone who had this idea that they are somehow owed their debts being paid by a benefactor to enter the priesthood/religious state. Of course, not everyone has this 'sense of being owed' and so we must look at things on a case-by-case basis.

Forgive me if I seem that I let the hammer fall hard. If it seems hard, it is because of the hard-earned experience I have gained throughout the past few years and I do not want to see anyone in the same boat as I am.

I read that Franciscan University of Steubenville's (FUS) Pre-Theologate program was mentioned earlier. As a graduate of the University, my hard-earned recommendation to you is not go to FUS to enter the Pre-Theologate program without a Diocese sponsoring/backing you. The University has no substantial amount of money to offer its students in financial aid and the amount of debt mentioned by a previous poster is usually what people end up owing. Many, and I do mean many vocation directors will not even look at your application if they know the applicant has so much debt. [i]Some will even scream at you over the phone[/i]. The horror stories I can tell you!

A common problem nowadays is that vocation directors are not straightforward with their applicants. I have experienced this pain and felt it deeply. That is why I can tell you what is going on and what [b]you[/b] can do about it. I emphasize the word 'you' because right now the ball is in your court, Catholicinsd, and I do not see you handling it very well. My goal is to help you, no matter if it hurts for you to hear the truth (whatever it might be) because your spiritual growth depends upon it and ultimately your vocation.

Many do not realize that a community or Diocese that is authentically living the Gospel of Jesus Christ will not reject vocational applicants with a slight of hand, mistreat them and then play like nothing is wrong. They will treat you with interest and sincerity of heart. By so doing, they demonstrate where their treasure lays. A part of being an authentic Diocese/community (if we wish to use labels) means, however, that they will be honest and forthright with the applicant if they see that a need to grow spiritually exists before they would accept the applicant. That is charity.

They would also commit to helping the applicant achieve the goals he or she needs for admittance through practical advice and perhaps setting the applicant up with a good spiritual director.

Catholicinsd, remember that you are the one who wants to give yourself with an undivided heart to the pursuit of the Kingdom of God and brings others to it. If a Diocese or community, for whatever reason, rejects this desire with a smack and a smirk, you do NOT want anything to do with them so do NOT waste your time and do NOT throw yourself a pity party. Your eyes are the ones that are supposed to be fixed on heaven so shake the dust from your shoes and continue forward.

I have found that there are different reasons why people get turned down. Among many Catholic circles today, the applicant's orthodoxy is typically cited as the reason why they are turned down. I do not deny that such a rejection happens but the whole liberal/conservative nonsense in the Church today has dangerously become the scapegoat for covering people's unsuitability for the priesthood. As a result, people who have some growing up to do are not maturing in Christ and instead whine about how they've been treated. Yet, such whining only produces the [i]bona fide[/i] evidence of their rejection in the first place!

There is a lot more than could be said and I fear that I've said too much as it is so I leave you with the following advice, Catholicinsd:

Remember to grow into the maturity we are all called to in Jesus Christ. Get a good spiritual director and start doing some good holy reading on the subject of Christian maturity. There are books out there. The ones by Dr. Rudolf Allers tend to be beneficial such as "Forming Character in Adolescents" (available at www.booksforcatholics.com).

Do not give up. You are young yet so take the time to learn the wonderful and amazing things God has in store for you.

[i]In pacem, benedicamus Domino[/i]!
-Kevin Symonds