Veridicus Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 (edited) [quote name='MIkolbe' date='18 February 2010 - 10:00 PM' timestamp='1266552011' post='2059247'] I am not sure if that was the wisest statement he had ever made... [/quote] I agree. This may have simply been a mis-speak. But modern technology captures everything one says. [quote name='Apotheoun' date='18 February 2010 - 10:00 PM' timestamp='1266552040' post='2059248'] Luckily no one is required to agree with everything that a Pope does or says, e.g., Pope Alexander VI had a mistress. No one - Catholic or otherwise - has to think that that was a good thing. [/quote] I'm not trying to be a hateful critic of JP2 or anything, just trying to level the "if you support islam in any way you are a heretic" statement. Although I do agree that Islam is heretical in its relation so Catholic Christianity. I hope this opinion doesn't merit me a negative one point. Edited February 19, 2010 by Veridicus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='18 February 2010 - 11:00 PM' timestamp='1266552040' post='2059248']Pope Alexander VI had a mistress. No one - Catholic or otherwise - has to think that that was a good thing. [/quote] If it's good enough for a Pope, it's good enough for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Veridicus' date='18 February 2010 - 09:02 PM' timestamp='1266552137' post='2059250'] I'm not trying to be a hateful critic of JP2 or anything, just trying to level the "if you support islam in any way you are a heretic" statement. [/quote] I know, but our catechumen is actually right, because it would be heretical to [i]support[/i] Islam. That said, an off-hand comment that is made without much thought is hardly heretical; and alas, sometimes Pope John Paul II was too much of a politician. Perhaps that is why Pope Benedict was elected to serve after John Paul II's rather long pontificate. Ratzinger is many things, but he does not strike me as a politician. Edited February 19, 2010 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veridicus Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Apotheoun' date='18 February 2010 - 10:08 PM' timestamp='1266552481' post='2059257'] I know, but our catechumen is actually right, because it would be heretical to [i]support[/i] Islam. That said, an off-hand comment that is made without much thought is hardly heretical; and alas, sometimes Pope John Paul II was too much of a politician. Perhaps that is why Pope Benedict was elected to serve after John Paul II's rather long pontificate. Ratzinger is many things, but he does not strike me as a politician. [/quote] Agreed. So is my bishop a heretic because of the fact that he allowed the Muslims of Evansville to use our Cathedral for public worship when the Islamic Temple (on an adjacent property on the same block) was vandalized horribly and in disrepair? Edited February 19, 2010 by Veridicus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 [quote name='MIkolbe' date='18 February 2010 - 11:00 PM' timestamp='1266552011' post='2059247'] I am not sure if that was the wisest statement he had ever made... [/quote] I agree with your assessment of that statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeenanParkerII Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 I was saying it in order to get at whoever is giving out negs. Why must you always question me veridicus. =| I don't agree with what JPII said. Islam is a heresy. It is herem - forbidden. It is anathema in the classical sense - the denouncement of Jesus and in turn to be denounced. It challenges the teachings of the Church and both orthodoxy and orthopraxy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeenanParkerII Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 [quote]So is my bishop a heretic because of the fact that he allowed the Muslims of Evansville to use our Cathedral for public worship when the Islamic Temple (on an adjacent property on the same block) was vandalized horribly and in disrepair? [/quote] No, that is charitable. However, the Muslims who used your Cathedral were heretics. Of course, we should be charitable to heretics. They may see the goodness in our faith through acts of charity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 [quote name='KeenanParkerII' date='18 February 2010 - 11:15 PM' timestamp='1266552936' post='2059266'] I was saying it in order to get at whoever is giving out negs. Why must you always question me veridicus. =| I don't agree with what JPII said. Islam is a heresy. It is herem - forbidden. It is anathema in the classical sense - the denouncement of Jesus and in turn to be denounced. It challenges the teachings of the Church and both orthodoxy and orthopraxy. [/quote] Haram. I'm not sayin I'm just sayin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 [quote name='KeenanParkerII' date='18 February 2010 - 09:15 PM' timestamp='1266552936' post='2059266'] I don't agree with what JPII said. Islam is a heresy. It is herem - forbidden. It is anathema in the classical sense - the denouncement of Jesus and in turn to be denounced. It challenges the teachings of the Church and both orthodoxy and orthopraxy. [/quote] I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeenanParkerII Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 [quote]Haram. I'm not sayin I'm just sayin. [/quote] I was using the Hebrew transliteration. O_o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veridicus Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 [quote name='KeenanParkerII' date='18 February 2010 - 10:15 PM' timestamp='1266552936' post='2059266'] I was saying it in order to get at whoever is giving out negs. Why must you always question me veridicus. =| [/quote] I'm sorry if it seems that way. Your posts remind me of one of my college friends. We got into the habit of really challenging one another's opinions because in a sense having to defend a statement more thoroughly better prepares you for when a protestant, muslim, etc puts your position to the test. I really don't mean anything by it. I can stop. [quote name='KeenanParkerII' date='18 February 2010 - 10:15 PM' timestamp='1266552936' post='2059266'] I don't agree with what JPII said. Islam is a heresy. It is herem - forbidden. It is anathema in the classical sense - the denouncement of Jesus and in turn to be denounced. It challenges the teachings of the Church and both orthodoxy and orthopraxy. [/quote] I agree 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 (edited) [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='18 February 2010 - 09:16 PM' timestamp='1266553011' post='2059268'] Haram. I'm not sayin I'm just sayin. [/quote] The Hebrew word "herem" (or "cherem") means [i]accursed[/i]. If something is [i]herem[/i] it is forbidden. Edited February 19, 2010 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 (edited) [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='18 February 2010 - 11:16 PM' timestamp='1266553011' post='2059268'] Haram. I'm not sayin I'm just sayin. [/quote] A harem is an anathema or excommuntion. A haram is a place where impure women partake in gravely sinful activities. He was referring to the former, not the later. EDIT: Apotheoun beat me to it. Edited February 19, 2010 by Resurrexi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Resurrexi' date='18 February 2010 - 11:20 PM' timestamp='1266553251' post='2059274'] A haram is a place where impure women partake in gravely sinful activities. [/quote] That, too, is a harem. Though, it does come from the arabic haram (حرم) meaning 'forbidden' (which, I assumed, is what we were going for, considering it's a thread about Muslims). Edited February 19, 2010 by USAirwaysIHS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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