Teen_Catholic Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1307161567' post='2249789'] that's a pretty bold statement to make, and one that i wouldn't make lightly. you have no right to say that just because a nun is not wearing a habit, she is 'vow-less.' [/quote] I did misphrase that sorry-I also read their pamphlet and their display table. It seemed as if they just lived as a community by what they themselves wrote. I agree that I shouldn't have used probably, but it does seem most likely. Edited June 4, 2011 by Teen_Catholic
kujo Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 [quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1307147406' post='2249686'] the role of [i]extraordinary[/i] Eucharistic Minister shouldn't be given to make teenagers feel "ownership and pride in their faith." *sigh* Abuse of this role is so rampant, even with adults.... [/quote] Why is it that you think this is a responsibility that is just "given" to someone instead of awarded to them based on their spirituality and disposition? [quote name='Teen_Catholic' timestamp='1307158377' post='2249770'] I have never been to Life Teen [i]group[/i] as my parents would never let me near the rock band, happy-go-lucky, do-whatever-feels-okay, croutons. I have been to my church's "teen" [i]Mass[/i] before and, honestly, it feels more like a rock group than a Mass. i have no problem with people singing Christian rock music with high amps, but not during Mass. At the my archdiocese youth convention, I was shocked to see a "nun" habit-less and probably vow-less too, speaking heretical things. I agree with DS; teens don't want this nonsense. It's so empty and meaningless. If youth ministers spent more time teaching Church teaching than singing "God is amesome" type songs, kids would be a lot better off. There are even fun Catholic games. Or maybe I'm just lame. All this coming from a teenage girl of course. [/quote] You are lame, but not for the reasons you think. You start off your post by saying that you've never been to a LIFE TEEN group, and then go on to make a whole bunch of (wrong) assumptions about the program before generalizing about what "teens" want. I don't know what the Church has against being "happy-go-lucky," nor do I see where the "do-whatever-feels-okay" part kicks in--as others have mentioned, LIFE TEEN is extremely doctrinally conservative. They preach the truth, and encourage others to do so in whatever manner their community seems most receptive to. And I agree with Lil Red that you're snide remark about the sister at this youth convention. But I shouldn't be surprised, all this coming from a teenage girl, of course.
MithLuin Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 Wait. If someone speaks heresy, I have a problem with that. I really don't care what kind of music people sing at mass (yes, yes, you can sing 'Like a Sunflower' and I probably won't cringe too badly - childhood memories count for something). I really don't care if Life Teen is someone's 'thing' or not. I even don't care if nuns wear what I think looks like a habit or not. But if someone is preaching heresy to the youth, that needs to stop and be condemned. Granted, in the post above, it was not clear to me what the nun had to do with Life Teen. Nor do I know if what was being said was actually heretical. I am a teacher, and I've heard students misrepresent what was said in the classroom many times. A teacher tried to explain something, and all they heard was...something else. So, I'll give the person the benefit of the doubt (innocent until proven guilty), but... If someone is preaching heresy to the youth, that needs to stop. Tell the pastor, tell the bishop, tell the parents, do [i]something[/i] about it.
Winchester Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 (edited) I've been to Life Teen mass at the church down the road. It's a performance. There is banter between the band (they are not a choir) and the celebrant. It has gotten better. There used to be a gaggle of teenagers chattering away in the vestibule and applause. To many, the purpose of Life Teen seems to justify the mass as entertainment. Edited June 4, 2011 by Winchester
kujo Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1307194570' post='2249854'] To many, the purpose of Life Teen seems to justify the mass as entertainment. [/quote] ...in your experience, with the one parish you've visited...
Winchester Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1307199517' post='2249873'] ...in your experience, with the one parish you've visited... [/quote] Yes, I put in that post my entire experience with all the Life Teen masses to which I've been subjected.
MissScripture Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1307181220' post='2249826'] Why is it that you think this is a responsibility that is just "given" to someone instead of awarded to them based on their spirituality and disposition? [/quote] Because it is not a responsibility that anyone CAN ever really earn or be "awarded". No one can EVER be worthy enough. This is our LORD and SAVIOR. Distributing the Eucharist, the body, blood, soul and divinity of our Lord, not some sort of award!
AudreyGrace Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 [quote name='Amppax' timestamp='1307156865' post='2249758'] I have a feeling that i shall as well (may be because i've already attended several ) [/quote] Rub it in, punk.
Amppax Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 [quote name='AudreyGrace' timestamp='1307201938' post='2249881'] Rub it in, punk. [/quote] Ok. I've been to FoP's
AudreyGrace Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 [quote name='Amppax' timestamp='1307203278' post='2249886'] Ok. I've been to FoP's [/quote] hope you like stinky clothes.
kujo Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 [quote name='MissScripture' timestamp='1307200505' post='2249877'] Because it is not a responsibility that anyone CAN ever really earn or be "awarded". No one can EVER be worthy enough. This is our LORD and SAVIOR. Distributing the Eucharist, the body, blood, soul and divinity of our Lord, not some sort of award! [/quote] Come on, Missy. Don't play the semantics game with me. In a very literal sense, it IS a responsiblity--there needs to be a certain amount of EMs at a given mass so as to serve the needs of the congregation. And when a parish or pastor or deacon decide to ask someone to be one, it ought to be a tremendously humbling honor. It's not an issue of being "worthy" for a "reward" and I never insinuated it was. So spare me the theology lesson.
HisChildForever Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 I have never been to a Life Teen Mass. The "closest" I have ever come to Life Teen was their online forum, which was actually the very first Catholic forum I had ever joined, and overall I had a positive experience there. Of course that was just a place of like-minded teenage Catholics, not an actual Life Teen youth group or Mass. The youth group at my parish is not Life Teen, "in my day" I only went to a couple meetings because I thought that it was cliquey and there was nothing very - spiritually beneficial about it. The first Sunday of the month my parish has a 6pm Mass considered a "youth Mass" but anyone can attend, of course. I hope the kids go to more than one Mass per month though...Anyway the "youth Mass" basically means that kids lector and sing, the latter usually strumming a guitar or two. I think, like all of us, that there is a serious catechesis problem in the Church today and it begins with our youth. I think a lot of youth ministers have the right intentions but the wrong methods - you might be able to temporarily pull kids into Church life by getting them involved in reading, and the music program, and serving on the altar, and doing little plays and whatnot, but that's pretty much community-based rather than theologically-based, all external and no internal. (I'm sure that Life Teen programs have Adoration though, I mean that's been mentioned in this thread.) The right methods would be to introduce the kids to Catholic teaching, the kind that's not discussed in CCD class, especially since CCD ends in the 8th grade (where I'm from at least) and kids are in youth group up until they're seniors in high school. Once they really get into what the Church teaches they'll get hungry for more and develop a really sound theological mind. Then they won't care if they read at Mass or not.
HisChildForever Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1307205557' post='2249892'] Come on, Missy. Don't play the semantics game with me. In a very literal sense, it IS a responsiblity--there needs to be a certain amount of EMs at a given mass so as to serve the needs of the congregation. And when a parish or pastor or deacon decide to ask someone to be one, it ought to be a tremendously humbling honor. It's not an issue of being "worthy" for a "reward" and I never insinuated it was. So spare me the theology lesson. [/quote] What are the "needs" of the congregation, though? I think too many parishioners rush out the door after Mass, a bunch after receiving. People need to be encouraged to stay in the pews, and especially encouraged to pray, pray, pray. If distribution of Holy Communion took an extra 10 or 15 minutes because there are two priests and one deacon distributing, you would have time to pray the Rosary or the Chaplet of Divine Mercy. There is too much rush, rush, rush and I believe MissScripture is just concerned that Christ is not getting the reverence He deserves. As an aside, I know in my parish that the pastor does not ask you to be an extraordinary minister, extraordinary ministers volunteer - and not a single volunteer is turned away (my dad is an usher so I'm "in the know" lol).
HisChildForever Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1307181220' post='2249826'] And I agree with Lil Red that you're snide remark about the sister at this youth convention. But I shouldn't be surprised, all this coming from a teenage girl, of course. [/quote] Kujo, I understand that you are passionate about the Life Teen program. Clearly your participation in the program has made you the orthodox Catholic you are today. But let's not fight snideness with snideness.
kujo Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 [quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1307205882' post='2249893'] I think, like all of us, that there is a serious catechesis problem in the Church today and it begins with our youth. I think a lot of youth ministers have the right intentions but the wrong methods - you might be able to temporarily pull kids into Church life by getting them involved in reading, and the music program, and serving on the altar, and doing little plays and whatnot, but that's pretty much community-based rather than theologically-based, all external and no internal. (I'm sure that Life Teen programs have Adoration though, I mean that's been mentioned in this thread.) The right methods would be to introduce the kids to Catholic teaching, the kind that's not discussed in CCD class, especially since CCD ends in the 8th grade (where I'm from at least) and kids are in youth group up until they're seniors in high school. Once they really get into what the Church teaches they'll get hungry for more and develop a really sound theological mind. Then they won't care if they read at Mass or not. [/quote] That's a good point. And LIFE TEEN takes the catechesis problem seriously; in fact, each year is broken into semesters where a particular theme (ex: the saints, Seven Deadly Sins, Beatitudes, the Mass) is exhaustively examined via 10-12 LIFE Nights. Each LIFE Night has a resource guide with relevant scripture, catechismal, and Saint/Pope quotes. It's meant to direct you towards the Church and it's richness. Of course, different YMs or programs have varying levels of adherence to this goal, but, as you said, that's a failing of the leadership within the particular program, not LIFE TEEN itself. They don't enforce quality standards or anything, which probably explains some of the horror stories people use to levy criticism at the program as a whole. I'd also like to say that LIFE TEEN is incredibly Eucharistically-focused, encouraging each program to set up a weekly adoration session for the whole program. They are also very devoted to the Virgin Mother and feature her (and her rosary) prominently in all of their nights and retreats.
dominicansoul Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1307205557' post='2249892'] Come on, Missy. Don't play the semantics game with me. In a very literal sense, it IS a responsiblity--there needs to be a certain amount of EMs at a given mass so as to serve the needs of the congregation. And when a parish or pastor or deacon decide to ask someone to be one, it ought to be a tremendously humbling honor. It's not an issue of being "worthy" for a "reward" and I never insinuated it was. So spare me the theology lesson. [/quote] i think what we're trying to get across, is that the role of Eucharistic Minister in the Catholic Church is EXTRAORDINARY, and has been abused to the point it has become an ORDINARY role. You don't "reward" peeps with this role, (teen or adult,) nor do you use this role to make people feel like they are taking an active participation in their Faith. Before the Church gave the permission for this ministry (again, only for extraordinary means), distribution of the Holy Eucharist didn't seem to be a problem with just the priests/deacons giving It out... ...fast forward to today, with a vastly lower percentage of Mass attendance than 40 years ago...why do we feel we need 10 to 15 EMs at every Mass now??? Its to the point of absurdity... I think teens would have more of a benefit if they weren't taught to abuse these roles...
kujo Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 [quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1307206260' post='2249894'] What are the "needs" of the congregation, though? I think too many parishioners rush out the door after Mass, a bunch after receiving. People need to be encouraged to stay in the pews, and especially encouraged to pray, pray, pray. If distribution of Holy Communion took an extra 10 or 15 minutes because there are two priests and one deacon distributing, you would have time to pray the Rosary or the Chaplet of Divine Mercy. There is too much rush, rush, rush and I believe MissScripture is just concerned that Christ is not getting the reverence He deserves. As an aside, I know in my parish that the pastor does not ask you to be an extraordinary minister, extraordinary ministers volunteer - and not a single volunteer is turned away (my dad is an usher so I'm "in the know" lol). [/quote] Again, semantics. The "needs" I refer to are the amount of EMs required to ensure an orderly, parsimonious distribution of Communion. Having laity and teens fulfill those roles has nothing to do with any of the problems you speak of, so I don't know how to respond to the rest of it. [quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1307206401' post='2249896'] Kujo, I understand that you are passionate about the Life Teen program. Clearly your participation in the program has made you the orthodox Catholic you are today. But let's not fight snideness with snideness. [/quote] Fair enough. I feel protective of the program because, as you said, it shaped me and I truly believe that doing so saved my life. I became involved during an immensely tumultuous time in my life and the structure and community and love I found in my community of faith gave me the strength to persevere through those hellish trials. Christ used it to rescue me from despair and hopelessness, and, for that, I will be eternally grateful. That said, I'm not blind to its flaws and don't agree with everything they do. I just don't think the attitude towards it around here is fair. Probably because of the many quasi-traditionalist/conservatives that populate this particular board. Some go so far as to lump it in with Protestantism, and that tends to set me off. It's like if someone insults your mom; even if what they said was true, you'd still feel like you wanted to pummel them.
kujo Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 [quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1307206654' post='2249900'] i think what we're trying to get across, is that the role of Eucharistic Minister in the Catholic Church is EXTRAORDINARY, and has been abused to the point it has become an ORDINARY role. You don't "reward" peeps with this role, (teen or adult,) nor do you use this role to make people feel like they are taking an active participation in their Faith. Before the Church gave the permission for this ministry (again, only for extraordinary means), distribution of the Holy Eucharist didn't seem to be a problem with just the priests/deacons giving It out... ...fast forward to today, with a vastly lower percentage of Mass attendance than 40 years ago...why do we feel we need 10 to 15 EMs at every Mass now??? Its to the point of absurdity... I think teens would have more of a benefit if they weren't taught to abuse these roles... [/quote] Okay. But a) that is your opinion (one which I share, in some measure), b) that is neither the fault or the purpose of LIFE TEEN (teens doing EM stuff isn't an official component of their mission or something). That's a parish problem and not something that you can use to criticize LIFE TEEN.
MissScripture Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1307207589' post='2249905'] Okay. But a) that is your opinion (one which I share, in some measure), b) that is neither the fault or the purpose of LIFE TEEN (teens doing EM stuff isn't an official component of their mission or something). That's a parish problem and not something that you can use to criticize LIFE TEEN. [/quote] I was not addressing LifeTeen. I was addressing your comment that it should be an "award" for people. I don't care if it is or is not part of LifeTeen, anywhere that is using EMHC as an award has an issue. And I don't care if they are teenagers or adults, no one deserves it as an award. And don't tell me that's semantics. YOU used the word award. If that's not what you meant, then you should've chosen a different word, because it IS in fact a responsiblity that is given, and not an award for anything.
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