stevil Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 [quote name='tgoldson' timestamp='1309559974' post='2261765'] I chose to accept that I do not know everything and I chose to trust that the Church established by Christ and His apostles over 2,000 years ago might know better than I do.[/quote] This is the horrid truth to what is happening. The Catholic church is teaching hundreds of millions of people (most who have choosen to accept church teaching above their own individual understandings) all around the world to look at homosexuals as people who are living in sin, who are willingly and repeatedly performing sin, that these people are sick and in need of a cure. Many people take it upon themselves to constantly remind the "offenders" of their sins, to castracise them and ensure that laws do not grant these people the basic human rights that others have (e.g. marriage, it was once even illegal to be homosexual). I have seen religious people take this teaching to the extreme, they will not listen to music performed by gay artists, they disown their gay children. This is a horrific result of this teaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Oh great, I've been tagged. I don't think anyone would confuse me as a person that represents the church. I hope the tag doesn't imply that I act trollish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 I'm pretty sure castracizing someone is a sin too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrestia Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1309566592' post='2261842'] This is the horrid truth to what is happening. The Catholic church is teaching hundreds of millions of people (most who have choosen to accept church teaching above their own individual understandings) all around the world to look at homosexuals as people who are living in sin, who are willingly and repeatedly performing sin, that these people are sick and in need of a cure. Many people take it upon themselves to constantly remind the "offenders" of their sins, to castracise them and ensure that laws do not grant these people the basic human rights that others have (e.g. marriage, it was once even illegal to be homosexual). I have seen religious people take this teaching to the extreme, they will not listen to music performed by gay artists, they disown their gay children. This is a horrific result of this teaching. [/quote] lots of people (even non-Catholics) misinterpret teachings and act in a manner that is uncharitable. Do you run around on Presbyterian forums to accuse them? What about Muslims? Jews? Mormons? What about politicians? Do you blame Sarah Palin for that guy shootimg Gifford? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Little Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 [quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1309565767' post='2261832'] OK, let's just come right out with it. Do you believe that homosexual sex is a sin? [ ] - Yes [ ] - No [/quote] no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Little Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1309563081' post='2261794'] Im not sure if you are actually reading this thread at all. i am one of the few people in here that could be said to be on your side, but you dont seem to realize that. when that persecution complex makes you think that people agreeing with you are attacking you, maybe you need to take it down a notch. [/quote] i really don't have a persecution complex. i'm only trying to help people understand the truth of being gay. and since each of us has firm beliefs about this that are not going to change it's really pretty fruitless to discuss it anymore. like i said before i apologize for being touchy but that in no way means i have a persecution complex. i'm fine. it is as simple as i disagree and i have to disagree because of who i am. if you are trying to be on my side then pardon me for not seeing it. and i thank you for your concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Little Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 [quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1309557022' post='2261754'] Look, let me try to level with you. I don't know you, I don't know what you've been through, I don't know what type of jack asses you have had to deal with throughout your life, so I'm not gonna say your resentment and bitterness is unjustified. Perhaps you have been hurt, or wounded by people and that smells of elderberries. And yes there are people who take stabs at people behind the shield of "pretty words," but that doesn't mean everyone who tries to address the issue with kind words is being passive-aggressive. I don't mean to hijack the thread, but what if it was? My God, no wonder people recoil at the accusation of having a dreaded "mental illness." A major reason people find it so offensive is because mental illnesses are erroneously considered to be within full control of the person. Initially I was a bit scared to be diagnosed with depression and social anxiety, but after I learned that these things had a name and that it could actually be treated it was a great comfort. In fact it was such a relief to discover this, I didn't really give a poo that people might think I'm some weak-minded hypochondriac who doesn't have a "real" illness. Up until that point I let these disorders define me. I literally thought that my depression was a part of me and I thought that if someone took it away then a part of me would be missing. Looking back I can see how screwed up that type thinking was, and I'm glad I realized it before it took more of my life away. The thing is, with the disorders I had, or still have but with much less severity, are probably the result of a perfect storm of elements: my personality type, experiences, environmental factors and other miscellaneous croutons. Now, there's nothing wrong with my personality type (well I guess that's debatable;)) but me being an introverted, introspective, perceptive, some would say "intelligent" (again debatable), perceptive, sensitive . . . none of these things are bad but they do sometimes lend themselves to feelings of loneliness and isolation which perhaps consolidated the receptors in my brain to become somewhat of a mess. It's not always cut and dried to determine what is an intrinsic, God-given part of you and what is an affliction. Like I said, I honestly became attached to depression and as horrible as being depressed is I feared if it left me I wouldn't be a whole person. I can understand how Gay people might feel the same way, only perhaps the damaging effects of homosexuality are not as immediately obvious as is with depression and anxiety. I don't know. It's a complex problem but it somewhat irks me that people see "disorder" as something to be offended by. Continue . . . I'll go back to poppin' that sertraline and livin my life g [/quote] i don't feel resentful and bitter at all. angry either. i love all my phatmass brothers and sisters. we simply disagree and we all have the right to do that. you have your beliefs and i have mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Little Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 [quote name='tgoldson' timestamp='1309557766' post='2261756'] My weak, elementary understanding of Catholicism is that the Church certainly understands that some followers do disagree with some teachings, but that those followers are still accountable for their actions. We are supposed to be obedient, even when we don't understand or agree. [/quote] i am accountable only to God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Little Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 [quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1309561483' post='2261776'] I apologize if it sounded as though I was trying to perpetuate the unfortunate thought that "mental illness" is bad or embarrassing. I was just explaining the technical use of the word 'disorder' in Catholic theology. [/quote] i know what a disorder is and being gay is not an illness or disorder. it simply is. it is so simple yet very few people are seeing it. that's okay. i'm not requiring anyone to agree with me. i'm only speaking of the the words that have been flying around here by some of us. the tone is unkind and unloving. if you didn't mean it to sound that way then fine. all is forgiven. but i have the right to be who i am. disorder is illness and i am not ill. i'm fine. i'm just gay,. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven77 Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 [quote name='Debra Little' timestamp='1309571838' post='2261881'] i am accountable only to God. [/quote] do you believe that Jesus is God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Little Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 [quote name='Seven77' timestamp='1309572197' post='2261890'] do you believe that Jesus is God? [/quote] what a strange thing to ask me. i have believed that all my life. i'm not going to change that now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven77 Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 [quote name='Debra Little' timestamp='1309572259' post='2261892'] what a strange thing to ask me. i have believed that all my life. i'm not going to change that now. [/quote] Jesus speaks through the Church, His Bride---do you believe this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeresaBenedicta Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 [quote name='Debra Little' timestamp='1309572077' post='2261889'] i know what a disorder is and being gay is not an illness or disorder. it simply is. it is so simple yet very few people are seeing it. that's okay. i'm not requiring anyone to agree with me. i'm only speaking of the the words that have been flying around here by some of us. the tone is unkind and unloving. if you didn't mean it to sound that way then fine. all is forgiven. but i have the right to be who i am. disorder is illness and i am not ill. i'm fine. i'm just gay,. [/quote] I don't think you read my original post. My argument was that SSA is NOT an illness. And I explained that the technical use of the word 'disorder' does not refer to a mental disorder or disease, but primarily to original sin and its effects. My apology was to another poster who wanted to make sure that mental illness was not equated with something to be ashamed of. Which it is not. You are who you are- that's great and beautiful. I am who I am and that's great and beautiful. God created the both of us and He loves us dearly. In fact, He loves us so much that He wants to give us the graces we need to re-order all that is within us that was affected by original sin, to re-order all of it back to Himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Little Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 [quote name='Seven77' timestamp='1309572630' post='2261894'] Jesus speaks through the Church, His Bride---do you believe this? Jesus speaks through the Church, His Bride---do you believe this? [/quote] Of course. I also know who I am. Look this is getting really old. Can we end this please. It's getting pretty boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Moving this to "debate" where it rightly belongs.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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