stevil Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 [quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1310121867' post='2264372'] the church tells not only homosexuals but all people that things they are doing is wrong and evil. i don;t know why your just singeling out the stance of the church on homosexual sex. i would say the church has talked as much if not more about how premarital sex between a man and a women, contraceptive sex between a man and a women and abortion is evil and wrong. i would say the church has told heterosexual's more about how their actions are sinful and evil than about homosexuals and their actions. yet it seems you pick and choose what things to look at when going after the church. is it wrong that the church teaches millions that premarital sex, masturbation, abortion and contraception are sinful and wrong? if not, then why is it only wrong when the church talks about homosexual sins? should homosexuals get extra special rules for them? should the church NEVER speak out about ANY sin because they are offending one group or another? i mean it seems that's what your point comes down to. you feel the church is unjust because it offends one group of people by saying their actions are sinful, so they should not do it. although by speaking out against abortion, contraception, premarital sex, incest, polygymey(sp?), masturbation and so on they are offending one group of people who think their is nothing wrong with their actions. it seems like(this may not be your actual stance) your only ok with religion if they are about thanking God and praying to God and not having any rules or guidelines to follow. that by having even one rule, your offending others and that is wrong. [/quote] It's about the consequences rather than the Church teachings. If a person doesn't agree with church teachings then it is easy to avoid going to church, but the problem is when people act upon these teachings in untoward ways. Masterbaters are not being singled out, they are not being told that they cannot marry or adopt children. They are not being turned away from accomodation, or jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1310123715' post='2264375'] It's about the consequences rather than the Church teachings. If a person doesn't agree with church teachings then it is easy to avoid going to church, but the problem is when people act upon these teachings in untoward ways. Masterbaters are not being singled out, they are not being told that they cannot marry or adopt children. They are not being turned away from accomodation, or jobs. [/quote] the church is telling single couples not married it is not right to live together prior to marriage. they are telling women/men that it is wrong to murder babies. i would say women/men who abort or provide abortion services are more singles out than homosexuals. now is it your contention that the church is being mean to these people and they should not single them out and the church should just drop any talk of abortion since it singles out people who procure and provide the murder of babies? when has the church turned or told people to turn homosexuals away from accomodations or jobs? this seems to be one of your main problems with religion. instead of looking at what the religion actually teaches you prefer to look at how its members act. just because someone is catholic does not mean they act in perfect accordance with church teaching. although for some reason you can not understand this. you just look at how the members of a religion act and then falsley assume that the religion in question must act like this and/or accept those actions. not just for for religion but for all organizations you can not look at people's actions, you instead need to look at what the organization stands for. i mean would it be fair of me to say that ALL athiests are horrible people because of the way some athiests act. should i look at democrates and condemn them all because clinton lied to the american people. should i now say the democratic party is all a bunch of liars and are immoral since clinton was a democrate and those were his actions so they must be the actions of all democrates and it must be what the party stands for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 [quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1310124913' post='2264380'] the church is telling single couples not married it is not right to live together prior to marriage. they are telling women/men that it is wrong to murder babies. i would say women/men who abort or provide abortion services are more singles out than homosexuals. now is it your contention that the church is being mean to these people and they should not single them out and the church should just drop any talk of abortion since it singles out people who procure and provide the murder of babies? when has the church turned or told people to turn homosexuals away from accomodations or jobs? this seems to be one of your main problems with religion. instead of looking at what the religion actually teaches you prefer to look at how its members act. just because someone is catholic does not mean they act in perfect accordance with church teaching. although for some reason you can not understand this. you just look at how the members of a religion act and then falsley assume that the religion in question must act like this and/or accept those actions. not just for for religion but for all organizations you can not look at people's actions, you instead need to look at what the organization stands for. i mean would it be fair of me to say that ALL athiests are horrible people because of the way some athiests act. should i look at democrates and condemn them all because clinton lied to the american people. should i now say the democratic party is all a bunch of liars and are immoral since clinton was a democrate and those were his actions so they must be the actions of all democrates and it must be what the party stands for. [/quote] Maybe you didn't fully read my big previous post, too many words I suppose. I am here with many questions, and I am looking for the answers rather than holding onto preconcieved ones. [quote] On the other hand I really want to understand what the stance is that Catholics have with people being gay and having gay sex. Is the Church telling people to treat gay people badly or are the Church followers misinterpreting the Church's stance ...[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1310125490' post='2264381'] Maybe you didn't fully read my big previous post, too many words I suppose. I am here with many questions, and I am looking for the answers rather than holding onto preconcieved ones. [/quote] i understand what your point of being here is, but people are giving you answers and your just blowing them off. your picking and choosing which things to argue and which things are unjust. you write repeatedly about how the church is wrong because they discriminate against homoexuals. although you ignore the fact that the church teaches the same things against all kinds of sin. it seems like your not here to learn but instead here to talk about specific things your against. it seems this way since yoru picking and choosing certain things to complain about even though we bring up the same instance of the church being against another type of sin. you just ignore that the church teaches that premarital sex is wrong and only focus on when the church says homosexual sex is wrong. the church talks about both and about how bad both are. yet you only focus on one and ignore the other when they are very similar. ii could understand if you complained about why does the church teach anything is wrong and they are offending someone always by telling them their acts are sinful. although your not doing that. yoru ignore facts and picking and choosing which things to complain about. that's why i question if your honestly here to learn about catholicism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 [quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1310121867' post='2264372'] i don;t know why your just singeling out the stance of the church on homosexual sex. [/quote] Um, because that's the topic of the thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 [quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1310125921' post='2264383'] i understand what your point of being here is, but people are giving you answers and your just blowing them off. your picking and choosing which things to argue and which things are unjust. you write repeatedly about how the church is wrong because they discriminate against homoexuals. although you ignore the fact that the church teaches the same things against all kinds of sin. it seems like your not here to learn but instead here to talk about specific things your against. it seems this way since yoru picking and choosing certain things to complain about even though we bring up the same instance of the church being against another type of sin. you just ignore that the church teaches that premarital sex is wrong and only focus on when the church says homosexual sex is wrong. the church talks about both and about how bad both are. yet you only focus on one and ignore the other when they are very similar. ii could understand if you complained about why does the church teach anything is wrong and they are offending someone always by telling them their acts are sinful. although your not doing that. yoru ignore facts and picking and choosing which things to complain about. that's why i question if your honestly here to learn about catholicism. [/quote] Now don't be uncharitable, havy. You seem to take offense to his questions and arguments. He's been nothing but polite and inquisitive. You ought to show him the same respect. Peace brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1310128448' post='2264391'] Um, because that's the topic of the thread? [/quote] do you feel the need to answer other people's questions? you seem to do this often. i ask "someone else" a question and you for some reason feel you need to answer their question for them. here's an idea, how about letting the people the question was asked to, answer it themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 [quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1310128786' post='2264393'] do you feel the need to answer other people's questions? you seem to do this often. i ask "someone else" a question and you for some reason feel you need to answer their question for them. here's an idea, how about letting the people the question was asked to, answer it themselves. [/quote] Well, it appeared that HE never answered YOUR question. So I was just doing my civic duty; providing you with all of the information you need. Besides, if you want to have a private conversation with someone, free from any interference from me or others, you should just ask for the Stevil's email address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1310128579' post='2264392'] Now don't be uncharitable, havy. You seem to take offense to his questions and arguments. He's been nothing but polite and inquisitive. You ought to show him the same respect. Peace brother. [/quote] i honestly am beginning to wonder if you even understand what uncharitable means. anytime someone post something that disagree's with your or thier opinion you immediatly jump in and say its uncahritable. you seem to think unless someone agree's with everything you say they are being uncharitable. you need to understand that other can have a differing opinion than yours and its not automatically uncharitable. nothing i said in this post was uncharitable. it was questioning someon'e motives in a charitable way. it was wondering if the person is not here for reasons they stated. no you assume just because i posed this question i am automaticallly uncharitable. that is not the meaning of uncharitable. you need to go look it up because your not understanding what the word means. although you will probobly say this post was uncharitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 [quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1310129067' post='2264398'] i honestly am beginning to wonder if you even understand what uncharitable means. anytime someone post something that disagree's with your or thier opinion you immediatly jump in and say its uncahritable. you seem to think unless someone agree's with everything you say they are being uncharitable. you need to understand that other can have a differing opinion than yours and its not automatically uncharitable. nothing i said in this post was uncharitable. it was questioning someon'e motives in a charitable way. it was wondering if the person is not here for reasons they stated. no you assume just because i posed this question i am automaticallly uncharitable. that is not the meaning of uncharitable. you need to go look it up because your not understanding what the word means. although you will probobly say this post was uncharitable. [/quote] You're right--it is uncharitable to assume, in an uncharitable manner, that someone was so uncharitable towards me so as to fail to provide me with the education necessary to charitably understand what "uncharitable" means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1310128901' post='2264395'] Well, it appeared that HE never answered YOUR question. So I was just doing my civic duty; providing you with all of the information you need. Besides, if you want to have a private conversation with someone, free from any interference from me or others, you should just ask for the Stevil's email address. [/quote] you demand instance answers. i just posted the question not to long ago and because he did not give me an immediate answer, you felt you needed to jump in. also you jumped in because you know exactly what he was thinking and that's why you answered? or you just felt like chimming in? let me releave you of your civic duty. if i ask someone else a question, don't answer for them. i am asking them for their answer not yours. when i would like you answer, i will ask you a question. pretty simple. so your saying that unless i have private conversations you will continue to jump in all my conversations? ok, glad to know you take so much intrest in me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1310129921' post='2264405'] You're right--it is uncharitable to assume, in an uncharitable manner, that someone was so uncharitable towards me so as to fail to provide me with the education necessary to charitably understand what "uncharitable" means. [/quote] well by that logic you have been uncharitable to everyone on this board for disgreeing with thier opinions and the opinions of the holy church. wouldn't you agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 [quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1310130016' post='2264406'] you demand instance answers. i just posted the question not to long ago and because he did not give me an immediate answer, you felt you needed to jump in. also you jumped in because you know exactly what he was thinking and that's why you answered? or you just felt like chimming in? let me releave you of your civic duty. if i ask someone else a question, don't answer for them. i am asking them for their answer not yours. when i would like you answer, i will ask you a question. pretty simple. [/quote] Seeing as how this is a public phorum, I'll just go ahead and do what I want and say what I please (in a charitable manner, of course). If you'd rather not be subjected to my responses, simply ignore them. [quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1310130016' post='2264406'] so your saying that unless i have private conversations you will continue to jump in all my conversations? ok, glad to know you take so much intrest in me. [/quote] I think you're smashing [quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1310130124' post='2264407'] well by that logic you have been uncharitable to everyone on this board for disgreeing with thier opinions and the opinions of the holy church. wouldn't you agree? [/quote] Perhaps that's why I've recently received a new badge underneath my avatar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1310130331' post='2264409'] Seeing as how this is a public phorum, I'll just go ahead and do what I want and say what I please (in a charitable manner, of course). If you'd rather not be subjected to my responses, simply ignore them. I think you're smashing Perhaps that's why I've recently received a new badge underneath my avatar [/quote] but by disagreeing with me your being uncharitable according to your logic. you need to stop disagreeing with me so you stop being uncharitable towards me and everyone else who agrees with all church teaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 [quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1310130483' post='2264411'] but by disagreeing with me your being uncharitable according to your logic. you need to stop disagreeing with me so you stop being uncharitable towards me and everyone else who agrees with all church teaching. [/quote] See, the difference here is that my logic was based on an attempt to make a joke--by using the word "uncharitable" as many times as I could. If I'm being honest, I really don't care whether you or anyone else is charitable or not. And since we're not graded on accuracy on Phatmass, I'll just go ahead and lob "uncharitable bombs" (are there any bombs that ARE charitable) whenever I feel it is most appropriate (or inappropriate). I suspect you'll do the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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