CatherineM Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 I doubt seriously if this guy would have wanted a Catholic funeral. He wasn't a member of a parish, and never stepped foot in the place. We also don't give Catholic funerals to non-Catholics. He separated himself from the church, making himself for all purposes a non-Catholic. The military doesn't give military funerals to those who didn't serve their country. I guess that is discrimination too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 (edited) [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1310136399' post='2264438'] I doubt seriously if this guy would have wanted a Catholic funeral. He wasn't a member of a parish, and never stepped foot in the place. We also don't give Catholic funerals to non-Catholics. He separated himself from the church, making himself for all purposes a non-Catholic. The military doesn't give military funerals to those who didn't serve their country. I guess that is discrimination too. [/quote] The military isn't the family of God...the Church is. You'll have to excuse me for holding us to a higher standard, even though we happen to be every bit as discriminatory as they are on the issue of homosexuality. Edited July 8, 2011 by kujo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1310137335' post='2264443'] The military isn't the family of God...the Church is. You'll have to excuse me for holding us to a higher standard, even though we happen to be every bit as discriminatory as they are on the issue of homosexuality. [/quote] ok, but should the catholic church hold funerals for everyone. people who are athiest, who refuse catholic teaching, who are not catholic but protestant, who are muslium and so on. is there a line to be drawn or should the catholic church hold funerals for anyone who wants it. if someone desecrated the euchrist on a daily basis and did this because of hate for the catholic church but upon their death request a catholic funeral, should the catholic church give him a catholic funeral? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 [quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1310138224' post='2264446'] ok, but should the catholic church hold funerals for everyone. people who are athiest, who refuse catholic teaching, who are not catholic but protestant, who are muslium and so on. is there a line to be drawn or should the catholic church hold funerals for anyone who wants it. if someone desecrated the euchrist on a daily basis and did this because of hate for the catholic church but upon their death request a catholic funeral, should the catholic church give him a catholic funeral? [/quote] You're creating a strawman. My opinion on the subject is clear: If someone is a Catholic, they should be able to have a Catholic funeral. If they and their family desire one. There's no implication that you approve their lifestyle. You acknowledge that they are a child of God who deserves to be honored and respected, in life as in death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1310138465' post='2264448'] If someone is a Catholic, they should be able to have a Catholic funeral. If they and their family desire one. There's no implication that you approve their lifestyle. You acknowledge that they are a child of God who deserves to be honored and respected, in life as in death. [/quote] I agree with this too, meaning that those who have declared themselves, through word or action, to be no longer Catholic, shouldn't receive Catholic funerals or be buried in Catholic cemeteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1310138465' post='2264448'] You're creating a strawman. My opinion on the subject is clear: If someone is a Catholic, they should be able to have a Catholic funeral. If they and their family desire one. There's no implication that you approve their lifestyle. You acknowledge that they are a child of God who deserves to be honored and respected, in life as in death. [/quote] when is someone considered catholic then? anyone baptized catholic? if someone is baptized as an infant as a catholic and never goes to church again and dies and their family requests a catholic funeral, should they get one? if someone falls away from the church and wants nothing to do with it but are never formally excommunicated or remove themselfs as a member and they die and their family want them to have a catholic funeral, should they get one? should someone who was baptized catholic but hates the church and speaks out against it, upon their death get a catholic funeral if their family wants it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1310139156' post='2264453'] I agree with this too, meaning that those who have declared themselves, through word or action, to be no longer Catholic, shouldn't receive Catholic funerals or be buried in Catholic cemeteries. [/quote] Well then I guess we disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1310139239' post='2264457'] Well then I guess we disagree. [/quote] Do you think George Carlin deserved a Catholic funeral? Joseph Goebbels? Henry VIII? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1310139544' post='2264460'] Do you think George Carlin deserved a Catholic funeral? Joseph Goebbels? Henry VIII? [/quote] I suppose I don't see a "Catholic funeral" as a reward, really. If you're Catholic, and your family wants to give you a Catholic funeral, I really don't see what the big deal is. Again, this goes back to a fundamental disagreement we are all having: I think a funeral is more for the families and friends. I also think it's particularly dumb to draw a link between your every-day homosexual and Joseph Goebbels and Henry VII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1310142444' post='2264488'] I also think it's particularly dumb to draw a link between your every-day homosexual and Joseph Goebbels and Henry VII. [/quote] Well that begs the question of whether you believe even one single unrepented mortal sin is enough to send an individual to hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1310113080' post='2264365'] so would you argue in favour of a single unmarried mother not getting a catholic burial? [/quote] Not necessarily. Her sin isn't a persistent one. It was a one time thing that's over and done with. A man living in a sexual relationship with another man is ongoing. His sin is re-affirmed every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1310142613' post='2264490'] Well that begs the question of whether you believe even one single unrepented mortal sin is enough to send an individual to hell. [/quote] I believe in God's love and I don't know that I can make any judgments about the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 [quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1310139208' post='2264455'] when is someone considered catholic then? anyone baptized catholic? if someone is baptized as an infant as a catholic and never goes to church again and dies and their family requests a catholic funeral, should they get one? if someone falls away from the church and wants nothing to do with it but are never formally excommunicated or remove themselfs as a member and they die and their family want them to have a catholic funeral, should they get one? should someone who was baptized catholic but hates the church and speaks out against it, upon their death get a catholic funeral if their family wants it? [/quote] This is one of your little tactics, isn't it? Creating a post with lots of "what ifs" and rhetorical questions. Seeing as how you're very particular about who answers your questions and when those answers occur, I'll answer succinctly: if the family of a person who was baptized Catholic desires a Catholic funeral for that person, one should be granted. We do not know a person's heart, and we cannot know that a conversion of that heart did or didn't happen. Since we afford suicide victims the benefit of the doubt, I believe we should do the same for homosexuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1310143448' post='2264497'] This is one of your little tactics, isn't it? Creating a post with lots of "what ifs" and rhetorical questions. Seeing as how you're very particular about who answers your questions and when those answers occur, I'll answer succinctly: if the family of a person who was baptized Catholic desires a Catholic funeral for that person, one should be granted. We do not know a person's heart, and we cannot know that a conversion of that heart did or didn't happen. Since we afford suicide victims the benefit of the doubt, I believe we should do the same for homosexuals. [/quote] well from what i have read Hitler was baptized catholic(no one would consider him catholic anymore though), so he should have been allowed a catholic funeral if his family requested it according to your logic? Your logic continues to fall apart because there are so many people who were baptized catholic yet are no longer catholic or have done many evils against the catholic church and yet according to you, no big deal, let's give them a catholic funeral. who cares what scandel it would give to the entire world if the catholic church gave hitler a catholic funeral, that doesn't matter. what matters is if it will make his family happy, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 [quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1310144117' post='2264501'] well from what i have read Hitler was baptized catholic(no one would consider him catholic anymore though), so he should have been allowed a catholic funeral if his family requested it according to your logic? Your logic continues to fall apart because there are so many people who were baptized catholic yet are no longer catholic or have done many evils against the catholic church and yet according to you, no big deal, let's give them a catholic funeral. who cares what scandel it would give to the entire world if the catholic church gave hitler a catholic funeral, that doesn't matter. what matters is if it will make his family happy, right? [/quote] YOUR logic falls apart every time you (or anyone else) draws a relationship between a homosexual and Hitler or Goebbels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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