homeschoolmom Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1309713940' post='2262650'] Bishop Henry in Calgary was brought before the Alberta Human Rights Tribunal for explaining Church teaching on gay marriage in our Catholic newspaper. They aren't making priests, rabbis, or imams marry same sex couples, yet. That's a big yet because the head of the groups here pushing for these "reforms" are very upfront that it is one of their goals. There are already plans in place as to how it will be handled by the archdiocese when it does eventually happen. In Ontario, the Catholic school board has been forced into doing sex education for grade school kids. Polygamy is also going to be coming soon. Already, refugees from countries where multiple wives are common are being allowed to bring more than one wife with them, giving them quasi-governmental recognition. Cases against the BC polygamists have been dropped. Everything that Canada does, you can expect the US to follow eventually. The advocacy is being paid for by the same group of people. [/quote] I always found it interesting that for years members of the FLDS church have practiced polygamy and the left seems to be repulsed by the idea. Now that immigrants of a different religion and culture want to bring all their wives, the PC police seem to be jumping over themselves to make it happen. I guess the FLDS church is not different enough in their religion or culture. Not saying that we should accept polygamy at all-- just interesting to note the double standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumiere Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Before everyone starts blaming the homosexuals for polygamy I would like to say one thing and let that be an end to it at this point. I have no problem with the Roman Catholic Church setting rules, policies, principles, etc. for its members. I actually greatly respect people who live by a set of principles. My problem is when people, rightly or wrongly, expect people outside of the Church to live by those same principles and I really resent it when people use Church principles to justify bigotry and hatred. Cardinal O'Malley's position is a position I can respect. He expected everyone within the Church to live by certain principles, not just the homosexuals. He also opposed the hatred and bigotry that has been apparent on these threads. What I can't understand is why you people are so threatened by homosexuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeresaBenedicta Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 [quote name='Lumiere' timestamp='1309735888' post='2262788'] Before everyone starts blaming the homosexuals for polygamy I would like to say one thing and let that be an end to it at this point. I have no problem with the Roman Catholic Church setting rules, policies, principles, etc. for its members. I actually greatly respect people who live by a set of principles. [b]My problem is when people, rightly or wrongly, expect people outside of the Church to live by those same principles and I really resent it when people use Church principles to justify bigotry and hatred.[/b] Cardinal O'Malley's position is a position I can respect. He expected everyone within the Church to live by certain principles, not just the homosexuals. He also opposed the hatred and bigotry that has been apparent on these threads. What I can't understand is why you people are so threatened by homosexuals. [/quote] I certainly don't feel threatened by homosexuals. On the contrary, one of my best guy friends is gay, and I love him to death. I do no recoil when he visits or when we go out. Nothing has changed in our friendship... well, except that now I can pine after him without any fear that he can be temptation to my vocation . I'm mostly kidding. Mostly. What we're finding here is the tension between respecting individuals choices and providing for the common good. As Catholics, we see the Church's teaching not simply something good [i]for us[/i], but by its very nature, good for the whole world. So, when we go to the voting booth, we vote according to the Church's teaching- not simply because the Church teaches it- but because we believe it to be good... and not just for us, but for everyone. And it [i]is[/i] a tension. A very real one. On the one hand, it seems that our current governmental set-up, the ability to vote, allows for the people to determine what is best for the common good. (That argument, just for the record, is that marriage, as traditionally defined, is best for the common good.) On the other hand, even God respects our free will and the ability to choose even things that are not good for us- shouldn't we also? So the issue is complicated. Which is more important- the common good or the individual's freedom to do as he or she wishes?l Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I don't feel or express hatred or bigotry for those with SSA. We just disagree what bigotry and hatred really mean. I don't feel threatened by homosexuals. There were many times that I was the last human being to touch a young man dying of AIDS. I do feel threatened of losing my rights to religious freedom due to homosexual advocates changing what free speech means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1309742307' post='2262838'] I do feel threatened of losing my rights to religious freedom due to homosexual advocates changing what free speech means.[/quote] yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 [quote name='tgoldson' timestamp='1309652203' post='2262340'] For me they said no and laughed. For others they said that the charitable Christians far outnumber those who discriminate. In the cases of discrimination, they said that the reaction of the charitable others was stronger than they expected. [/quote] Thanks for asking your friends, I am surprised by their second answer, not the first one as I am presuming you are a pretty decent person. Sorry if my next statement annoys you or misrepresents you, I am not doing this intentionally but please put me in my place if I have done so. I assume your friends aren't aware that the following are teachings of the Catholic church and I assume that you agree with these: Homosexual sex is a sin Homosexual attraction is a disorder Homosexual sex is against nature Homosexuals should either abstain from sex or become heterosexuals Homosexuals should pray for forgiveness regarding their homosexual sex acts Homosexuals should not be able to marry each other Homosexuals should not be able to adopt children Homosexuals should not be school teachers Hotel owners should have the right to turn away homosexual customers Homosexuals should not be given a burial service by the church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeresaBenedicta Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1309763031' post='2262907'] Homosexual sex is a sin. [b]Yes. Objectively, the act of homosexual is grave matter. When it is performed with full knowledge and full consent, it is, for the individual(s) performing the act, gravely sinful.[/b] Homosexual attraction is a disorder. [b]Perhaps... but that's for psychology to determine. What we [i]can[/i] say, however, is the homosexual attraction is disordered. The distinction is important.[/b] Homosexual sex is against nature. [b]Yes.[/b] Homosexuals should either abstain from sex or become heterosexuals. [b]Abstain from sex; yes, just as anyone who is not married is to abstain from sex. Become heterosexuals? There is some research that suggests this is, perhaps, possible... that sexual attraction, rather than being strict and unmoving, is more of continuum... it can possibly shift somewhat... But, again, this is a question for psychologists.[/b] Homosexuals should pray for forgiveness regarding their homosexual sex acts. [b]Just the same as anyone who has fallen short of the glory of God ought to pray for forgiveness.[/b] Homosexuals should not be able to marry each other.[b]Correct.[/b] Homosexuals should not be able to adopt children. [b]Correct.[/b] Homosexuals should not be school teachers. [b]'Practicing' homosexuals can't teach at Catholic schools. That's about as far as I'll go with it, though.[/b] Hotel owners should have the right to turn away homosexual customers. [b]Do hotel owners have the right to turn away heterosexual couples, who are not married? I don't think so. Neither do they have the right to turn away homosexual customers.[/b] Homosexuals should not be given a burial service by the church. [b]Any person who has publicly renounced the Catholic Church through their persistent, unrepented sin has himself/herself renounced a funeral Mass or Christian burial by the Church.[/b] [/quote] My responses are in bold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I see a big difference between turning away a hotel guest, and a bed and breakfast guest. One is a public facility, and the other is often someone's home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 [quote name='Lumiere' timestamp='1309691687' post='2262563'] What the Church does inside the Church is one thing, but when [b]that spreads into prejudice and anger in society as a whole,[/b] then it affects me and mine. [/quote] Seriously? Please elaborate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 [quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1309767430' post='2262920'] My responses are in bold. [/quote] To clarify one point - Catholic church employees sign a morality clause. So, for instance, if I was a single DRE and moved in with my girlfriend my contract could be terminated. There is nothing illegal about this. Imagine if as a strong orthodox Catholic I applied for a job as the spokesman for a homosexual advocacy group. They would be right to turn me away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 [quote name='Brother Adam' timestamp='1309794127' post='2262995'] To clarify one point - Catholic church employees sign a morality clause. So, for instance, if I was a single DRE and moved in with my girlfriend my contract could be terminated. There is nothing illegal about this. Imagine if as a strong orthodox Catholic I applied for a job as the spokesman for a homosexual advocacy group. They would be right to turn me away. [/quote] what? you mean like someone working for the USCCB (as head of the CCHD) also working as the treasurer for a pro-abortion candidate running against a pro-life Catholic candidate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeresaBenedicta Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 [quote name='Brother Adam' timestamp='1309794127' post='2262995'] To clarify one point - Catholic church employees sign a morality clause. So, for instance, if I was a single DRE and moved in with my girlfriend my contract could be terminated. There is nothing illegal about this. Imagine if as a strong orthodox Catholic I applied for a job as the spokesman for a homosexual advocacy group. They would be right to turn me away. [/quote] Ah, yes, right. I'm pretty sure it goes for any position in the Church. My point wasn't clear- I had meant to say I wouldn't go any further to speculate about public schools. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 (edited) It's easy to try to shut down a debate by throwing the term "bigotry" at your opponent. I don't fall for it, though. [quote name='Lumiere' timestamp='1309735888' post='2262788'] I have no problem with the Roman Catholic Church setting rules, policies, principles, etc. for its members. I actually greatly respect people who live by a set of principles. My problem is when people, rightly or wrongly, expect people outside of the Church to live by those same principles and I really resent it when people use Church principles to justify bigotry and hatred. [/quote] By that logic, it is OK for the rest of society to steal and murder, since the Cathoilic Church opposes those things as well, and we wouldn't want people outside the Church subject to those rules, would we? This is not just a disciplinary item, like the Friday lenten regulations. The reason that homosexual sex is intrinsically immoral, not just for Catholics but EVERYONE, is that it goes against the natural law. After all, a plug does not plug into another plug or a socket into another socket; plugs are meant to plug into sockets. It's not rocket science or bigotry; it's just the way it is. (Mods, I hope this analogy isn't too graphic or offensive). Edited July 4, 2011 by Norseman82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 [quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1309800428' post='2263045'] After all, a plug does not plug into another plug or a socket into another socket; plugs are meant to plug into sockets. It's not rocket science or bigotry; it's just the way it is. (Mods, I hope this analogy isn't too graphic or offensive).[/quote] nope, but it sure is pretty phunny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 [quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1309800428' post='2263045'] This is not just a disciplinary item, like the Friday lenten regulations. The reason that homosexual sex is intrinsically immoral, not just for Catholics but EVERYONE, is that it goes against the natural law. After all, a plug does not plug into another plug or a socket into another socket; plugs are meant to plug into sockets. It's not rocket science or bigotry; it's just the way it is. (Mods, I hope this analogy isn't too graphic or offensive). [/quote] ahh but anyone with a bit of wiring experience can jury rig something up. going north american to euro, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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