If I "renounce" Catholicism...

[kujo]

If I "renounce" Catholicis[color=#333333]m on Phat[/color][color=#333333]mass and beco[/color][color=#333333]me a "non-Catholic," can people give [/color][color=#333333]me props and stuff?[/color]

[Laudate_Dominum]

NEIN!

Well, I don't think so. Not 100% sure. :-/

[Basilisa Marie]

Non-Catholics can get props and stuff.

[kujo]

Can we get a [color=#333333]mod up in here for clarification?[/color]

[Groo the Wanderer]

that may be a mortal sin

[kujo]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' timestamp='1332683003' post='2407849']
that may be a mortal sin
[/quote]

A "real" one, or a P[color=#333333]m one?[/color]

[Lisa]

Do you consider yourself a Catholic in real life? If so, props really shouldn't be your aim. Eternal life might be a better goal.

Seriously, though. I don't know you, so I'm just going on what I've seen of your posting. It seems you have trouble with some teachings of the Faith, how individuals live it out, and how many Catholics assume a particular political affiliation. At some point in their lives, I think all Catholics struggle with something. Please consider holding on to ask more questions, especially of a kind, faithful priest, Sister, or lay person. People on PM are fantastic, but sometimes things can get really heated here over minute issues. Don't let PM color your view of all Catholics. Find others in real life that are searching for the truth within the Church and talk about your concerns!

Prayers!

[Anomaly]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1332657957' post='2407768']
If I "renounce" Catholicis[color=#333333]m on Phat[/color][color=#333333]mass and beco[/color][color=#333333]me a "non-Catholic," can people give [/color][color=#333333]me props and stuff?[/color]
[/quote]Yes. I did.

[ACS67]

I posted the following in the Vocation forum here on PM. Please consider what you are saying. It is a very serious matter.
[quote]It needs to be understood that Catholics have an obligation to remain in the Church. If we do not do so we will be all the more severely judged as it states in Lumen Gentium:


[quote]14. This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism(124) and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. [b]Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.[/b]
...
All the Church's children should remember that their exalted status is to be attributed not to their own merits but to the special grace of Christ. [b]If they fail moreover to respond to that grace in thought, word and deed, not only shall they not be saved but they will be the more severely judged[/b].(13*)[/quote]
This is a very serious matter, one not often spoken of today.[/quote]

Edited March 25, 2012 by ACS67

[Anomaly]

Kinda like getting coal from Santa Claus.

[kujo]

[quote name='Lisa' timestamp='1332689088' post='2407949']
Do you consider yourself a Catholic in real life? If so, props really shouldn't be your aim. Eternal life might be a better goal.

Seriously, though. I don't know you, so I'm just going on what I've seen of your posting. It seems you have trouble with some teachings of the Faith, how individuals live it out, and how many Catholics assume a particular political affiliation. At some point in their lives, I think all Catholics struggle with something. Please consider holding on to ask more questions, especially of a kind, faithful priest, Sister, or lay person. People on PM are fantastic, but sometimes things can get really heated here over minute issues. Don't let PM color your view of all Catholics. Find others in real life that are searching for the truth within the Church and talk about your concerns!

Prayers!
[/quote]
[quote name='ACS67' timestamp='1332689416' post='2407957']
I posted the following in the Vocation forum here on PM. Please consider what you are saying. It is a very serious matter.
[/quote]

First off, I appreciate the seriousness and thoughtfulness with which both of you responded in this post. I was really [color=#575757]more half-kidding than anything else. I do consider [/color][color=#575757]myself a Catholic, although I a[/color][color=#575757]m certainly not without [/color][color=#575757]my disagree[/color][color=#575757]ments with the Church and so[/color][color=#575757]me of her teachings. I don't get too far into which teaching is "infallible" and which isn't, because I know [/color][color=#575757]my opinion is based on the goodness that God placed in [/color][color=#575757]my heart, and a strong desire to show people the love and understanding that Christ would want us to. I know that there are those on here--and elsewhere-- who do the whole "fraternal correction" bit, but that I just not [/color][color=#575757]my way. That [/color][color=#575757]may put [/color][color=#575757]me at odds with the Church, but I can't [/color][color=#575757]make [/color][color=#575757]myself believe so[/color][color=#575757]mething I honestly don't think is right. [/color]

[Groo the Wanderer]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1332683564' post='2407856']
A "real" one, or a P[color=#333333]m one?[/color]
[/quote]

LORF! I was being silly.


But seriously....and this goes for all folks out there struggling with Catholic teachings. Keep in mind one thing: the Church did not make up anything it teaches. Everything, 100%, that the Church teaches was taught first to it by God. The Church does ot have the authority to change teachings or to make up new ones. All it can do is keep the truth intact, pass it on through the ages, and help the present day understand those teachings in light of what is happening now.

That said, before you categorically reject anything the Church teaches, first take the time to at least find out WHY it teaches that. Where it comes from, what is the purpose. You owe that much to yourself. Think about it rationally: if you reject the truth of man, you risk nothing. If you reject the truth of God, you risk everything. Truth is Truth - unwavering, unchangeable. You, I , or anyone else can deny or refuse to believe a Truth...but that doesn't change the Truth. It just puts us in error.

So, before you renounce Catholicism (here or anywhere) take a hard look at why. If you disagree with something, find out why; for you disagree not with the Church, but with God. And that, my friend, is dangerous ground to trod. Quis ut Deus?


If you are not sure what teachings are infallible (from God, dogma) and which are fallible (from man, disciplines) check out the CCC. It's a complete and accurate listing of what we believe and teach as a Church. It also refers to the Bible, the Church Fathers, and various church documents.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Groo the Wanderer

[kujo]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' timestamp='1332689854' post='2407968']
LORF! I was being silly.


But seriously....and this goes for all folks out there struggling with Catholic teachings. Keep in mind one thing: the Church did not make up anything it teaches. Everything, 100%, that the Church teaches was taught first to it by God. The Church does ot have the authority to change teachings or to make up new ones. All it can do is keep the truth intact, pass it on through the ages, and help the present day understand those teachings in light of what is happening now.

That said, before you categorically reject anything the Church teaches, first take the time to at least find out WHY it teaches that. Where it comes from, what is the purpose. You owe that much to yourself. Think about it rationally: if you reject the truth of man, you risk nothing. If you reject the truth of God, you risk everything. Truth is Truth - unwavering, unchangeable. You, I , or anyone else can deny or refuse to believe a Truth...but that doesn't change the Truth. It just puts us in error.

So, before you renounce Catholicism (here or anywhere) take a hard look at why. If you disagree with something, find out why; for you disagree not with the Church, but with God. And that, my friend, is dangerous ground to trod. Quis ut Deus?
[/quote]

I recognize that [color=#282828]my persona on P[/color][color=#282828]m can be that of a co[/color][color=#282828]mbative doosh, but the people who know [/color][color=#282828]me well would tell you that I have 3 8-foot bookshelves filled with all sorts of legal, theological, philosophical and fictional (co[/color][color=#282828]mics, fantasy, etc.) books on a wide range of topics. I a[/color][color=#282828]m a voracious reader, and I seldo[/color][color=#282828]m co[/color][color=#282828]me to any conclusion without first reading and considering anything I can get [/color][color=#282828]my hands on. Ad[/color][color=#282828]mittedly, I haven't read every[i]thing[/i] by every person, but no one could accuse [/color][color=#282828]me of not doing [/color][color=#282828]my ho[/color][color=#282828]mework.[/color]

[PhuturePriest]

I myself struggled with some Church teachings myself at one point. I was a very pro-war type of guy, and I thought "We can't do whatever it takes to win a war?" and, "You mean we can't do preemptive strikes and torture people for information? What the heck is the Church thinking?! These things are necessary to win a war!" And, of course, the prized gem, "The death penalty is wrong? Are you serious? I suppose we should give murderers a lollipop and tell them good job instead?" Well, the first step to getting past this is letting go of yourself. The Church is the voice of God. Are you saying you know better than God does? You've studied tons of books, and this is wonderful, but God is the reason those books even exist. God is the reason you have the mental capacity to read those books. God literally knows every word that has ever been spoken and written. I'm pretty sure his knowledge is well above yours. Thankfully, I realized that God and his Church are smart and I am an idiot, so I got past these things and let Christ and his Church form my opinions, not my political party. I hope you find it in yourself to do the same. For help, I would recommend seeing a Priest about this, and watch plenty of EWTN.

[Basilisa Marie]

There's a big difference between being Catholic and being recognized as a Catholic on Phatmass. Kujo isn't talking about leaving the Church. He's talking about losing the phisy tag.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Basilisa Marie

[Ice_nine]

Well, it seems to me that your intentions are usually pretty good, but (as you know this) we can't pick which parts of Catholicism we'd like to believe and which ones we don't. I mean there is room for nuance in some areas, but the issues that I remember you dissenting on seem to be a concession to the culture. Well-read as you might be, there's probably something you missed or it could be truths that are just hard to swallow. It happens.

There are things I find hard to believe about our religion as well but there is a difference between saying "I simply cannot accept this" and saying "I don't understand this, but I am trying to" and for some that "trying to" part may last until like 3 seconds before you die, and is an uncomfortable way to live for sure, but I have no doubt the effort will be rewarded.

It's primarily an issue of humility. And I know there can be a fine line between blind obedience and humility. Keep up the struggle homes.

(and I know you're only talking about losing your fishy tag but I think it still applies)

[kujo]

[quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1332692660' post='2407994']
Well, it seems to me that your intentions are usually pretty good, but (as you know this) we can't pick which parts of Catholicism we'd like to believe and which ones we don't. I mean there is room for nuance in some areas, but the issues that I remember you dissenting on seem to be a concession to the culture. Well-read as you might be, there's probably something you missed or it could be truths that are just hard to swallow. It happens.

There are things I find hard to believe about our religion as well but there is a difference between saying "I simply cannot accept this" and saying "I don't understand this, but I am trying to" and for some that "trying to" part may last until like 3 seconds before you die, and is an uncomfortable way to live for sure, but I have no doubt the effort will be rewarded.

It's primarily an issue of humility. And I know there can be a fine line between blind obedience and humility. Keep up the struggle homes.

(and I know you're only talking about losing your fishy tag but I think it still applies)
[/quote]

It does

You're one of my favorites on here, so your comments have more weight than most.

Thanks sis

[MissyP89]

I think you should keep the phishy tag, but I also think the permissions for Phishies should be changed a bit. You're being put in time out, essentially, and (IMHO), you're not a butthat.

Maybe we should establish a new tag: Troll. LOL

[Anomaly]

Kujo,
Face it. PM considers db a better catholic.

Seriosly Props don't buy ya beer. If you don't believe you're not catholic, don't lie to yourself or others. Better to be the person you feel you should be than whom others think you should be.

[kujo]

[quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1332697563' post='2408055']
I think you should keep the phishy tag, but I also think the permissions for Phishies should be changed a bit. You're being put in time out, essentially, and (IMHO), you're not a butthat.

Maybe we should establish a new tag: Troll. LOL
[/quote]

Or "Trying"...