Augusta Posted January 30, 2013 Author Posted January 30, 2013 However, much of the blame for people not "getting" what you're trying to say lies with you. Saying "re-read this post and that post" don't help on the phorum, or around the internet at large. When people aren't "getting it" the best thing to do is re-word your point and add additional details. Perhaps. Have you ever been in a situation where you're discussing a book (for the sake of example) with someone and it's clear that they haven't read it? What do you do? You probably tell them to read the book. It's the same thing here. When people start discussing double-standards and men being jerks after a few pages, it's clear they haven't read the posts prior to theirs. I would be happy to re-word things, but in my experience, it's not unusual for people to focus on a few key words and comment, without realizing they're not really replying to what's being discussed. You jumped right in and accused people of being judgmental instead of trying to help them to better understand. Even with our resident trolls, the people of Phatmass are incredibly charitable, and this thread would have gone better if you'd explained yourself more, earlier on. Your original post was incredibly vague as to your friend's position, and made it sound like she was being a bit of a snob. Again, it would not have been a bad thing for people to ask for clarification - after all, if you don't understand something, you ask for clarification. If you do understand something, or think you do, you go ahead and comment. Even after explaining things in a fair amount of detail, there were still comments directed at me as if I were a man. That makes it clear that they haven't "done the reading." The reason people have responded the way they have, is because they didn't have all the facts and because either they were themselves non-virgins or they know very nice non-virgins who have recommitted to a life of chastity; a similar situation seems to have been the catalyst for this discussion. Well, someone did explain that another thread had runs its course and that there was potentially resentment still with them. I can understand that. I used to belong to a Christian (not Catholic) forum where Catholics were considered "off limits" as marriage partners. But, I'm not even talking about people being "off limits," just that there are some things that people do can potentially trouble others (and there's a long list, none of which is unacceptable as criteria). I know when you brought up tattoos, I had a similar reaction. I'm a great guy, who happens to have 3 tattoos with the intention to get more. It raises my hackles a little bit when people say that they'd never marry a person with tattoos. It feels like I'm being discriminated against, along with my fellows who also have tattoos. If it makes you feel better, I don't mind them in moderation (i.e. not all over the face). Have people not acted charitably to your friend? Certainly, but I'd say that is "What Gives". Are they right? Definitely not. Your friend does have legitimate reasons for wanting to only marry a virgin. But when people feel like they are being discriminated against, and they don't have all of the facts, they tend to get defensive. I understand that (now, for sure). This probably wasn't the best "welcoming session" there ever was to a forum... :covereyes: -AK P.S. ...and I'm not exculpating myself, either...
PhuturePriest Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 You're free to make that call. You don't honestly believe that to be true, do you? Of course I've taken in points made by others. Given the misunderstanding evident in your reply, I think it's best for both of us if we just end this line of conversation. -AK You have not shown any sign of taking in points made by others. I know your game, I used to be the master of it. Trust me, I can give you some links to my old threads I made when I first came on here over a year ago. They look very similar to this one: I said something hostile and/or judgmental even though I didn't particularly mean it to come out that way, other people responded accordingly, I would get defensive and angry, they would say I wasn't listening, and then I would say I was even though I wasn't. You're not listening. If you were we wouldn't be having this conversation. No one has said they want to marry a non-virgin. You said that's not what you said earlier, but if I may take the liberty of using your favorite catch phrase, read the whole thread. You said exactly that not too long ago. Nobody said wanting to marry a virgin was a bad thing, which again you said we were. I would preferably marry a virgin. I would like to and it would be nice. But it wouldn't stop me from loving someone. If it stops someone from loving a person and marrying them, they are denying their vocation and that is wrong. Denying your vocation = Denying God's will in your life. It's not a hard concept to know this is a bad thing.
GeorgiiMichael Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) FP YOU NEED TO STOP POSTING IN THIS THREAD RIGHT THIS INSTANT. JUST STOP. Edited January 30, 2013 by GeorgiiMichael
Augusta Posted January 30, 2013 Author Posted January 30, 2013 We are NOT saying the same things as those people. Some people are. That's why I haven't been entirely nice. I've seen the effects some of those comments have, and it's hard to separate some things. Please take a deep breath. It's OK. No one is attacking virgins, virginity, or who she wants to marry. *breath* The way you're behaving isn't conducive to a productive, healthy, charitable discussion. Even your initial post was hostile and accusatory. That's not the right way to start things off. I apologize for that, then. I didn't mean it as hostile to everyone, just the kinds of people who would emotionally abuse someone for not reaching their level of "forgiving" or "loving." I'll be taking a break now... -AK
MissScripture Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 We've clearly misunderstood each other. It wasn't really intended to be related (as it's not the main question I'm trying to have answered). The progression: "It strikes me as illogical to hold virginity so high." "I think the Church does." "False."http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius12/P12SACRA.HTM And I'm not really arguing over anything (at least intentionally). I feel I've been dragged into a debate that was never supposed to happen, all because others have jumped to conclusions. Anyhow, we'd better end this line of conversation as it's not productive. -AK Please read the whole thread. Please. It's not about me, it's about my friend. -AK I have read the entire thread, and I never said this thread was about you, but you said you thought people should mind their own business about a topic you brought up. Therefore, yes, people are commenting on it, and making comments that you may not like or agree with, and may seem somewhat harsh to you, but bear in mind, you brought it up. To then say that people need to mind their own business is a bit over the top.
PhuturePriest Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 Some people are. That's why I haven't been entirely nice. I've seen the effects some of those comments have, and it's hard to separate some things. *breath* I apologize for that, then. I didn't mean it as hostile to everyone, just the kinds of people who would emotionally abuse someone for not reaching their level of "forgiving" or "loving." I'll be taking a break now... -AK And I'm sorry for being a little too harsh at times. That is just the way I learned to be more careful about my wording and how it is read on the internet, and sometimes I overdo it. Hope we can turn this thread into a more positive and healthy discussion (All of us)! :)
Lilllabettt Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) If it stops someone from loving a person and marrying them, they are denying their vocation and that is wrong. no. i mean we are called to "love" all people. we are not called to have the hots for all people. and you are probably not called to marry someone you do not have the hots for. whether it is because they are non-virgins, non-Italians, got/need a nose job, etc. Edited January 30, 2013 by Lilllabettt
PhuturePriest Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 no. i mean we are called to "love" all people. we are not called to have the hots for all people. and you are probably not called to marry someone you do not have the hots for. whether it is because they are non-virgins, non-Italians, got/need a nose job, etc. Who said anything about having the "hots" for someone? What I meant was if you are called to marry someone but don't because they don't fit your virginity criteria then that is wrong. But we are away from that discussion now and there's really no reason to bring it back up.
Lilllabettt Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 My point is that a person who is not attracted to non-virgins is probably not called to marry a non-virgin. And there is nothing wrong with not being attracted to non-virgins.
GeorgiiMichael Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 My point is that a person who is not attracted to non-virgins is probably not called to marry a non-virgin. And there is nothing wrong with not being attracted to non-virgins. I have no more props to give, but rest assured, you have them in my heart.
PhuturePriest Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 My point is that a person who is not attracted to non-virgins is probably not called to marry a non-virgin. And there is nothing wrong with not being attracted to non-virgins. I'm not arguing against this. But I am saying if you let it get in the way of your vocation, this would be bad. Part of surrendering yourself to God is giving away all your little preferences and letting Him do his will in your life, not his will according to your preferences.
GeorgiiMichael Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 I'm not arguing against this. But I am saying if you let it get in the way of your vocation, this would be bad. Part of surrendering yourself to God is giving away all your little preferences and letting Him do his will in your life, not his will according to your preferences. WHAT DID I SAY? STOP. WE'RE AT A GOOD STOPPING PLACE. YOU NEED TO STOP. YOU'RE PERPETUATING THE THREAD NOW. STOP. CAPS LOCK FOR GREAT JUSTICE
PhuturePriest Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 WHAT DID I SAY? STOP. WE'RE AT A GOOD STOPPING PLACE. YOU NEED TO STOP. YOU'RE PERPETUATING THE THREAD NOW. STOP. CAPS LOCK FOR GREAT JUSTICE Look, she's the one that continued the conversation. I said we should stop, she continued. Could I have stopped? Yes. But she continued it. There are two keyboards at work, here, and only one of them is mine.
missionseeker Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 I think the Church does. You can take it up with them. Does this not strike you as callous? Anyhow, you've repeated many things that have already been addressed. -AK I guess that's why Jesus turned his back on the woman at the well and Mary Magdalen.. oh... wait. Before you think I should re-read the thread I think you need to know these things: 1- I have read every post on this thread. 2- I replied to the exact post you linked me when you said I obviously had not read your reply 3- You must not have read MY post where I said it is completely fine and NORMAL for someone to prefer to marry a virgin. 4 - TO say those things to your friend is wrong. And 5- the problem is when one person objectifies someone else based on their virginity. That's when it becomes wrong. 6- perhaps you should re-read others' responses when you are less emotionally wound up. Personally, I'd have no problem marrying a guy who wasn't a virgin. But I would have a problem marrying someone who smelled bad. If she wants to marry a virgin, fine. Whatever. But she needs to realize that -as with all things- there can be a fine line between preference and sin. It is not a sin to want to marry a virgin. It is a sin to become so concerned with someone's vriginity that you miss the person's PERSON. I'm just going to interject about how this thread progressed, not about the actual subject matter. Augusta, you're clearly very concerned for your friend, hence the start of this thread and the tone of your continued responses. However, much of the blame for people not "getting" what you're trying to say lies with you. Saying "re-read this post and that post" don't help on the phorum, or around the internet at large. When people aren't "getting it" the best thing to do is re-word your point and add additional details. You jumped right in and accused people of being judgmental instead of trying to help them to better understand. Even with our resident trolls, the people of Phatmass are incredibly charitable, and this thread would have gone better if you'd explained yourself more, earlier on. Your original post was incredibly vague as to your friend's position, and made it sound like she was being a bit of a snob. The reason people have responded the way they have, is because they didn't have all the facts and because either they were themselves non-virgins or they know very nice non-virgins who have recommitted to a life of chastity; a similar situation seems to have been the catalyst for this discussion. I know when you brought up tattoos, I had a similar reaction. I'm a great guy, who happens to have 3 tattoos with the intention to get more. It raises my hackles a little bit when people say that they'd never marry a person with tattoos. It feels like I'm being discriminated against, along with my fellows who also have tattoos. Have people not acted charitably to your friend? Certainly, but I'd say that is "What Gives". Are they right? Definitely not. Your friend does have legitimate reasons for wanting to only marry a virgin. But when people feel like they are being discriminated against, and they don't have all of the facts, they tend to get defensive. I do hope you stay. You'd be a great addition to the phamily! Pax, GeorgiiMichael I think I've seen pics of your tattoos. They are awesome. :)
PhuturePriest Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 WHAT DID I JUST SAY? Why don't you take your own advice and stop posting? Tensions are quite obviously running high, and I see no reason for anyone to continue with this thread. I said that I hoped we could turn this into a healthy discussion, but quite obviously we can't.
GeorgiiMichael Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 Satirical capslock------------------------ Your head---------------------------------
PhuturePriest Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 Satirical capslock------------------------ Your head--------------------------------- Am I behind the times for not knowing what on earth this means?
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