Interview With Pope Francis In America Magazine

[Apotheoun]

Do I want Pope Francis to succeed in reforming the Curia? Yes. It has real problems. Do I think that he is going to successfully reform it? I have growing doubts about his ability to do so. He is not a young man after all and so his time is limited.

[4588686]

There's a hierarchy of truths, Apotheoun. Don't get fixated on the lesser items. No need to disrupt fruitful dialogue and ecumenical initiatives over such things!

 

 

You're right.  It should be sodomy all day, every day. Just like Jesus.  

[Basilisa Marie]

You did the stupid thing and actually read the article, didn't you? Pfft. Please, that's for foolish persons.

 

Seeing as I'm the OP, yeah. :)

 

So FP, what'd you think about this part? 

 

 

 

“I see clearly,” the pope continues, “that the thing the church needs most today is the ability to heal wounds and to warm the hearts of the faithful; it needs nearness, proximity. I see the church as a field hospital after battle. It is useless to ask a seriously injured person if he has high cholesterol and about the level of his blood sugars! You have to heal his wounds. Then we can talk about everything else. Heal the wounds, heal the wounds.... And you have to start from the ground up.

 

I thought it was pretty poignant. :) 

[PhuturePriest]

Sadly, Basilisa Marie perception is often reality in the modern West. The Pope should be less interested in giving interviews to the media that are really about him as a person, and focus more on reforming the Roman Curia and trying to get the Roman Church's liturgy in order. For a man who is constantly referred to as humble he certainly likes giving interviews and being the center of attention.

 

We have to evangelize through the media. Want to have the Church fall off the radar completely with the secular world? Stop being in the media. We live in a world of media. Part of evangelizing is evangelizing with the tools given to you. The media is a goldmine for evangelization. Do you know how much faster the Church would have spread if televisions and computers existed in the early Church?

[Apotheoun]

There's a hierarchy of truths, Apotheoun. Don't get fixated on the lesser items. No need to disrupt fruitful dialogue and ecumenical initiatives over such things!

I have actually run into Catholics who think of the notion of the hierarchy of truths in the way implied in your post, that is, that some truths are more important than others. When in fact the hierarchy of truths merely concerns the interrelation of the truths of the faith among themselves. After all it is nonsensical to think that some truths are more true than other truths. 

[Basilisa Marie]

Sadly, Basilisa Marie perception is often reality in the modern West. The Pope should be less interested in giving interviews to the media that are really about him as a person, and focus more on reforming the Roman Curia and trying to get the Roman Church's liturgy in order. For a man who is constantly referred to as humble he certainly likes giving interviews and being the center of attention.

 

Okay, well, it's fine that you have different priorities, but I think that precisely because image is such a big deal in the West, as a Western man Pope Francis is doing some good by trying to affect it. 

[4588686]

edited by moderator:  the sexual innuendo was over the top -- cmariadiaz

 

Edited September 21, 2013 by cmariadiaz

[Basilisa Marie]

Some truths aren't more true than others, but some truths are more important. 
 

 

 

The most important thing is the first proclamation: Jesus Christ has saved you. And the ministers of the church must be ministers of mercy above all. The confessor, for example, is always in danger of being either too much of a rigorist or too lax. Neither is merciful, because neither of them really takes responsibility for the person. The rigorist washes his hands so that he leaves it to the commandment. The loose minister washes his hands by simply saying, ‘This is not a sin’ or something like that. In pastoral ministry we must accompany people, and we must heal their wounds.

 

[PhuturePriest]

Seeing as I'm the OP, yeah. :)

 

So FP, what'd you think about this part? 

 

 

I thought it was pretty poignant. :)

 

Wait, someone asking my opinion on something other than what I want for lunch? This is new... :P

 

I think it hits the nail on the head. If you keep saying "Don't have gay sex, don't use contraception, don't have abortions!" but that's all you say, and you never mention the Gospel and the message of it (Which is salvation), you come off as judgmental and nobody is going to listen to you. You need a reason not to do those things. You need to be given something greater in exchange for not doing those things. If people were properly told the Gospel and understood the message of salvation, they would willingly forgo these things. But they aren't and they don't.

[Apotheoun]

We have to evangelize through the media. Want to have the Church fall off the radar completely with the secular world? Stop being in the media. We live in a world of media. Part of evangelizing is evangelizing with the tools given to you. The media is a goldmine for evangelization. Do you know how much faster the Church would have spread if televisions and computers existed in the early Church?

So let's not worry about the more than 300 million Orthodox Christians, who actually have a lot in common with the Roman Church as it has traditionally lived the faith, and go after those who are less likely to respond positively. Doesn't it maybe make more sense to find your allies and work with them, maybe even try to restore communion with them, so that you can - as a stronger body - try and convert non-believers? Nah, let's just alienate the Orthodox, and make them think that the Roman Church is about to reinvent itself yet again.

[Apteka]

Maybe humility?  Compassion for the poor and the weak?  The pernicious effects of unchecked greed on the world?  Compassion and mercy in the face of aggression and hostility.  Chastising the powerful and the comfortable who take advantage of the impoverished, the socially weak.  

 

Do any of these issue ring a bell?  They're all issues that Jesus actually talked about.  They also pertain tho things currently going on in the world.  

 

Interesting, because the Church already talks about these things

 

You're right.  It should be sodomy all day, every day. Just like Jesus.  

 

Does Hasan always resort to such lame tactics? The Church addresses a multiplicity of issues. Many of those issues non-Catholics will find themselves in agreement with the Church, but sadly, there are issues of disagreement as well. Now I know folks like Hasan would very much like the Church to effectively drop any issue the world contends with her, but that's just not how it works. The Church must stand up for all issues. You want to start with the things of agreement? Go ahead, but eventually you'll run into the same unresolved areas of debate.

[Apotheoun]

Some truths aren't more true than others, but some truths are more important. 
 

That is Pope Francis' view, but it is not the traditional view of the Church. Some truths may be foundational, but no truth can be ignored, and no truth is less important than any other. The end result of that approach would be to tear the fabric of the faith apart. The Episcopalians tried that approach, and is that what Catholics really want to strive for, i.e., to be more like the Episcopalians?

Edited September 21, 2013 by Apotheoun

[Apteka]

Wait, someone asking my opinion on something other than what I want for lunch? This is new... :P

 

I think it hits the nail on the head. If you keep saying "Don't have gay sex, don't use contraception, don't have abortions!" but that's all you say, and you never mention the Gospel and the message of it (Which is salvation), you come off as judgmental and nobody is going to listen to you. You need a reason not to do those things. You need to be given something greater in exchange for not doing those things. If people were properly told the Gospel and understood the message of salvation, they would willingly forgo these things. But they aren't and they don't.

 

Sorry, but what world are you guys living in. When has the Church just focused on gay sex and contraception without giving the Gospel?

 

Anyone?

[Basilisa Marie]

Wait, someone asking my opinion on something other than what I want for lunch? This is new... :P

 

I think it hits the nail on the head. If you keep saying "Don't have gay sex, don't use contraception, don't have abortions!" but that's all you say, and you never mention the Gospel and the message of it (Which is salvation), you come off as judgmental and nobody is going to listen to you. You need a reason not to do those things. You need to be given something greater in exchange for not doing those things. If people were properly told the Gospel and understood the message of salvation, they would willingly forgo these things. But they aren't and they don't.

 

Exactly! And I think that it's a lot easier for people to "digest" the truths of the faith, especially the moral issues, when you have the whole picture.  The Church's positions on homosexual activities, contraception, etc don't make much sense to those outside the system. For better or worse, it has internal coherency.  Talking about the reasons for a particular understanding of sacramental marriage may be a better way of helping people understand the reasons against gay marriage, for example.  Because it's pretty obvious to me that by and large, the current tactics of getting society to hear, understand, and agree with what we believe have more or less failed.  

[Apteka]

That is Pope Francis' view, but it is not the traditional view of the Church. Some truths may be foundational, but no truth can be ignored, and no truth is less important than any other.

 

Apparently every homily that has come out since the Second Vatican Council has been about gay sex, condoms, or abortion. Ironically, I always thought it was the Media picking apart Catholic teaching and focusing on these issues and not the Church, but apparently I was wrong... all this time the Church has been focusing on three moral issues, lets all celebrate Francis for addressing this problem!