Nihil Obstat Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Wait wait wait. Is it a doctrine that Mary is co-redemptrix? Basilisa says no, Dust says yes? I really hope it's no... I always thought that was private revelation-y, like the people who own statues that bleed tears and pictures of Our Lady in grilled cheese sandwiches?? It is not currently defined as a Marian dogma, but there are good reasons that it may be at some point in the future. I have changed my mind; I do not think someone should be phished over it. That would be an example of trying to be "more Catholic than the pope" since it is not a slide fined doctrine. That being said I absolutely think Mary as co-redemptrix is theologically accurate and should he accepted by all Christians. It is not really on the same footing as private revelation. More like the concept of the Immaculate Conception much earlier in the Church's history before it was properly defined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritasluxmea Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 It is not currently defined as a Marian dogma, but there are good reasons that it may be at some point in the future. I have changed my mind; I do not think someone should be phished over it. That would be an example of trying to be "more Catholic than the pope" since it is not a slide fined doctrine. That being said I absolutely think Mary as co-redemptrix is theologically accurate and should he accepted by all Christians. It is not really on the same footing as private revelation. More like the concept of the Immaculate Conception much earlier in the Church's history before it was properly defined. St Maximilian Kolbe believed the teaching and suggested at one point it would be made doctrine, and there was another modern day saint who believed the same- I want to say JPII, Eidith Stein, or Padre Pio but I don't think it was either of them? can't remember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 St Maximilian Kolbe believed the teaching and suggested at one point it would be made doctrine, and there was another modern day saint who believed the same- I want to say JPII, Eidith Stein, or Padre Pio but I don't think it was either of them? can't remember Possibly several of them. I believe there are more theologians in favour of defining it as doctrine, either enthusiastically or somewhat more reservedly, than there are against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthfinder Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 It is not currently defined as a Marian dogma, but there are good reasons that it may be at some point in the future. I have changed my mind; I do not think someone should be phished over it. That would be an example of trying to be "more Catholic than the pope" since it is not a slide fined doctrine. That being said I absolutely think Mary as co-redemptrix is theologically accurate and should he accepted by all Christians. It is not really on the same footing as private revelation. More like the concept of the Immaculate Conception much earlier in the Church's history before it was properly defined. Nihil, can you post some links, or pm them to me. Co-redemptrix status is linked in my mind with Mary-worship; so I must be off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Nihil, can you post some links, or pm them to me. Co-redemptrix status is linked in my mind with Mary-worship; so I must be off. May take me some time to track down specific references. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritasluxmea Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Possibly several of them. I believe there are more theologians in favour of defining it as doctrine, either enthusiastically or somewhat more reservedly, than there are against. Most of the reservations I've heard against it are because they believe it would make reunion with protestants (mainly Anglicans and I think Lutherans) and Orthodox more difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthfinder Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 May take me some time to track down specific references. Thanks, whenever you get a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Most of the reservations I've heard against it are because they believe it would make reunion with protestants (mainly Anglicans and I think Lutherans) and Orthodox more difficult. Quite frankly I do not think 'reunion' with Lutherans and Anglicans is possible. Unless by reunion we are referring to actual conversion, from their end. Like our recent crop of traditional Anglicans, some of whom I have met, and who have made very excellent Catholics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NadaTeTurbe Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Mary Co-Redemptrix have been (maybe) asked by the virgin Mary in apparition in Asterdam (the Lady of All Nation). The first bishop did not recognize the apparition, as did the congregation for the faith, but the second bishop did, so it's not clear if the apparition are recognized or not, the question is "who have the most power in this case ?" The lady received something like 200 apparitions of the Virgin Mary. There was also a prayer who say something like "may the lady of all nations who was mary, be our advocate", but the CDF changed it to "May the lady of all nation, the blessed virgin mary, blessed all" I personnaly pray the Virgin Mary under the title "Lady of All Nations" because it is authorized and beautiful, but I choose to not believe in the apparition (apparition of the VIrgin Mary are never a dogma, and in this case it is unclear). Also, the image of the Lady of All Nations shows Mary with a cross behing Her, but without Jesus, and it make me unconfortable. I prefer to pray apparition who are sure, like our Lady of Lourdes. If you speak french, you can learn more in the book "Les faussaires de Dieu" by Joachim Boufflet, who speak about the history of false apparition of the Virgin Mary in the history of the Church and the status of the apparitions of the Virgin Mary. It's Padre Pio who used the title "Co-Redemptrix" when he prayed. I am not against the doctrina, I am against the world. When I heard "Co-Redemptrix", me, I think that the Virgin Mary and Jesus are the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oremus1 Posted May 23, 2015 Author Share Posted May 23, 2015 No, dust is a man who lives in the United States. I was responding to your original question asking Oremus if she lived in Oregon. Oremus (who is a girl) lives outside the United States so therefore she doesn't live in Oregon. (at least I'm pretty sure.) Oremus does not live in OregonDust is not a person but an invisible omnipresent entity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotpink Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Oremus does not live in OregonDust is not a person but an invisible omnipresent entity. No, Dust was the one talking about Bishop Smith. That's my Bishop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oremus1 Posted May 23, 2015 Author Share Posted May 23, 2015 No, Dust was the one talking about Bishop Smith. That's my Bishop. Yeah right is Fr Joe Bloggs is your parish priest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggyie Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Ok I'm glad we don't have to believe it. I believe we should work to make Mary respected and loved in the current dogmas about her before piling on more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oremus1 Posted May 23, 2015 Author Share Posted May 23, 2015 do bishops celebrate birthdays? do they eat cake? do they have hobbies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgnatiusofLoyola Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 do bishops celebrate birthdays? do they eat cake? do they have hobbies? Obviously, I can claim little familiarity with canon law, but I believe that one requirement to be a Roman Catholic bishop is that he be a human being. (Even if this is not explicitly spelled out, I expect it is assumed.) Therefore, I expect that the answer to all three of your questions is, "Yes, but the details will vary by the individual bishop." For example, I expect that most bishops eat cake, some more than others. However, if the bishop has diabetes, he might not eat cake as often as he might like. I will leave it to others to tell any anecdotal stories they might know about these specific aspects of the personal lives of bishops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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