Transgender Man Here! Ask Me Anything! :)

[CuriositasEtFidem]

1 minute ago, Anomaly said:

I don’t have theological questions.   To me they are pretty much irrelevant, though I do have a number of other questions.   Up for them?    Leaving the theology to others?

ask away

[Anomaly]

My mind goes immediately to how much your gender “trans” is difficulty in you trying to be you and being told “x” behavior means you’re gay or transgender?   I think of my daughters who are not the typical girls and bs they got from others, pursuing their non traditional interests.  For example my eldest liked football and could throw better than most grade school boys and got lots of flack about being “b utc h”, etc.   since it was very unladylike.    Her family life was pretty much do whatever you like, but it still caused issues.   I guess my question is did you feel you have to identify as male to match your personality as a younger person?

[CuriositasEtFidem]

14 minutes ago, Anomaly said:

My mind goes immediately to how much your gender “trans” is difficulty in you trying to be you and being told “x” behavior means you’re gay or transgender?   I think of my daughters who are not the typical girls and bs they got from others, pursuing their non traditional interests.  For example my eldest liked football and could throw better than most grade school boys and got lots of flack about being “b utc h”, etc.   since it was very unladylike.    Her family life was pretty much do whatever you like, but it still caused issues.   I guess my question is did you feel you have to identify as male to match your personality as a younger person?

Hmmm well growing up I was as tomboyish as you could get. I ran around with the neighborhood boys and my brother, waving sticks around and building forts in the woods. I've always have had "masculine" interests (as well as feminine ones, but that's besides the point), and behaved in a "masculine" way. Any masculine woman could live happily as herself without feeling the need to identify as male, but to me, the idea of being a woman, while not inherently bad in any way, is simply "not me." I strongly dislike she/her pronouns, and I don't feel connected to womanhood. 

[Anomaly]

3 minutes ago, CuriositasEtFidem said:

Hmmm well growing up I was as tomboyish as you could get. I ran around with the neighborhood boys and my brother, waving sticks around and building forts in the woods. I've always have had "masculine" interests (as well as feminine ones, but that's besides the point), and behaved in a "masculine" way. Any masculine woman could live happily as herself without feeling the need to identify as male, but to me, the idea of being a woman, while not inherently bad in any way, is simply "not me." I strongly dislike she/her pronouns, and I don't feel connected to womanhood. 

Hmmm.    I wish we could kick back and drink a beer and discuss some more.   
I have a close “gay” friend that had a horrible child hood, teased by his brothers as being a girl.   Eventually, after a hetero marriage he came out as gay.    I’ve met a few of his boyfriends.     I’d say they were gay.    Him, I’d call unhappy and militantly gay as a compensation to the past hurts.  Quite different than gay family and friends.   
But it’s one of my pet peeves about letting people be who you want.     I actually had a neighbor kid that was transgender of some sort in the 60’s.   Pretty much is was let the kid play how they wanted.     It wasn’t any weirder than having a step parent.  They moved before we all hit puberty so I don’t know how it worked out before kids hit high school and became savages.  

Did you get flack about playing how you wanted or doing what you want as a kid?

[CuriositasEtFidem]

18 minutes ago, Anomaly said:

Hmmm.    I wish we could kick back and drink a beer and discuss some more.   
I have a close “gay” friend that had a horrible child hood, teased by his brothers as being a girl.   Eventually, after a hetero marriage he came out as gay.    I’ve met a few of his boyfriends.     I’d say they were gay.    Him, I’d call unhappy and militantly gay as a compensation to the past hurts.  Quite different than gay family and friends.   
But it’s one of my pet peeves about letting people be who you want.     I actually had a neighbor kid that was transgender of some sort in the 60’s.   Pretty much is was let the kid play how they wanted.     It wasn’t any weirder than having a step parent.  They moved before we all hit puberty so I don’t know how it worked out before kids hit high school and became savages.  

Did you get flack about playing how you wanted or doing what you want as a kid?

Yeah, I got strange looks and a few comments, but I mostly shrugged it off and continued doing as I pleased

[Peace]

6 hours ago, CuriositasEtFidem said:

Fixed it

Look, whatever gender you were when you were born, that is the same gender that you are now. Now what gender that is, I have no idea nor do I particularly care, but you can't change what you are.  If I sow some whiskers on my face and say meow that doesn't make me a cat. It is what it is.

[CuriositasEtFidem]

Hmm it seems like people are getting upset. This calls for a jam break:

 

[Lilllabettt]

1 hour ago, CuriositasEtFidem said:

Hmm it seems like people are getting upset. This calls for a jam break:

 

I think the more interesting question is, when did you first begin to consciously, deliberately identify male gender stereotypes with manhood itself?  Do you think your parents ingrained this? 

You say you talk, dress "like a man" and people call you by a man's name and so on. And playing a man thid way, makes you feel comfortable going about the world.  fine, dandy. 

But then you make this huge giant leap from "I dress like a man, talk like a man, etc" to "I am, in fact, a man."  Where does that come from??????

As if manhood = what one wears, how one speaks, what one's name is. Manhood is basically, something that is defined for you. If you can pass as a man, if you play the part of a man and read the script society has provided for manhood well enough, and society approves then you ARE a man.

 

 

 

[CuriositasEtFidem]

1 hour ago, Lilllabettt said:

I think the more interesting question is, when did you first begin to consciously, deliberately identify male gender stereotypes with manhood itself?  Do you think your parents ingrained this? 

You say you talk, dress "like a man" and people call you by a man's name and so on. And playing a man thid way, makes you feel comfortable going about the world.  fine, dandy. 

But then you make this huge giant leap from "I dress like a man, talk like a man, etc" to "I am, in fact, a man."  Where does that come from??????

As if manhood = what one wears, how one speaks, what one's name is. Manhood is basically, something that is defined for you. If you can pass as a man, if you play the part of a man and read the script society has provided for manhood well enough, and society approves then you ARE a man.

 

 

 

Here we come again to the theory of performative gender. 

Honestly, my gender's validity doesn't depend on what other people think, respectfully. I'll just go on being myself (Sorry if that sounded a little sharp, I'm very tired right now)

4 hours ago, Peace said:

Look, whatever gender you were when you were born, that is the same gender that you are now. Now what gender that is, I have no idea nor do I particularly care, but you can't change what you are.  If I sow some whiskers on my face and say meow that doesn't make me a cat. It is what it is.

(Meant in all good fun, not trying to be rude)

[Peace]

10 minutes ago, CuriositasEtFidem said:

Here we come again to the theory of performative gender. 

Honestly, my gender's validity doesn't depend on what other people think, respectfully. I'll just go on being myself (Sorry if that sounded a little sharp, I'm very tired right now)

Well in that case neither does your species. You think that you are a dog today therefore you are a dog. You said "Woof woof. Bark bark" when you got out of bed. And you changed your name to Fido.

Edited February 22, 2021 by Peace

[CuriositasEtFidem]

Just now, Peace said:

Well in that case neither does your species. You think that you a dog today therefore you are a dog. You said "Woof woof. Bark bark." when you got out of bed. And you changed your name to Fido.

H...how- how is that even remotely the same?

Well, this thread has been very informative :). If anything, I've learned that I'm now even more reluctant to engage in Catholic circles openly as myself. I think I'll just lurk for a day or two around here, and maybe then reply to some more stuff that isn't quite as... venomous? I don't know what some of these replies are but they're not friendly, that's for sure

[Peace]

21 minutes ago, CuriositasEtFidem said:

H...how- how is that even remotely the same?

Well, this thread has been very informative :). If anything, I've learned that I'm now even more reluctant to engage in Catholic circles openly as myself. I think I'll just lurk for a day or two around here, and maybe then reply to some more stuff that isn't quite as... venomous? I don't know what some of these replies are but they're not friendly, that's for sure

Look, you are wrong. You wanted to be treated like a man, no? Well, there you go. You got treated like one. No kid gloves and crying to mama.

I didn't appreciate your FIFY. That was some passive-aggressive BS. If you want to refer to yourself as a new gender, go for it. But I don't have to call you a man just because you feel like one today. Get over it.

[CuriositasEtFidem]

5 minutes ago, Peace said:

Look, you are wrong. You wanted to be treated like a man, no? Well, there you go. You got treated like one. No kid gloves and crying to mama.

I didn't appreciate your FIFY. That was some passive-aggressive BS. If you want to refer to yourself as a new gender, go for it. But I don't have to call you a man just because you feel like one today. Get over it.

Now this is outright nasty. I may have been a little passive-aggressive, I admit that, but you have absolutely no right to be this rude to me. Aaaannd that's the end of my interactions with you.

[Lilllabettt]

1 hour ago, CuriositasEtFidem said:

Here we come again to the theory of performative gender. 

Honestly, my gender's validity doesn't depend on what other people think, respectfully. I'll just go on being myself (Sorry if that sounded a little sharp, I'm very tired right now)

I don't think that's true at all.

I think if you're honest you'll admit that most of your satisfaction in acting out "manhood" (as you've been conditioned to see it - suit and tie? Boyish sounding name?)  Is derived from passing as male bodied - being appraised as a man by society. 

I think your satisfaction depends almost entirely on what people think. Otherwise you wouldn't give a rats behind if people thought you were a man or used male pronouns for you. You would just be yourself, a woman who enjoys Masculine gender roles.  But the opposite is true- it's very important that you can think of yourself as a man and that society treat you as if you were a man. 

Whether this is right or wrong isn't the question. Obvs I think it's toxic masculinity but my guess is you think it's fine. If you think manhood is defined some other way than dressing speaking "like a man" by all means share, otherwise I think it's clear you think male gender stereotypes = manhood. Right or wrong isn't the question, but when did you first develop this understanding? 

 

 

 

 

[Lilllabettt]

1 hour ago, CuriositasEtFidem said:

Now this is outright nasty. I may have been a little passive-aggressive, I admit that, but you have absolutely no right to be this rude to me. Aaaannd that's the end of my interactions with you.

 

It's true though... if you want to play the man's gender role, in our society that means having thick skin,  letting insults roll of your back, not complaining about hardship or mistreatment and not crying in general. 

Now me, I reject the idea that these gender stereotypes have anything to do with manhood. But your perspective is that doing gender stereotypes IS what makes one a man. If that's what you think, and if you're a man....the above script is the part you'll need to play.

[CuriositasEtFidem]

47 minutes ago, Lilllabettt said:

 

It's true though... if you want to play the man's gender role, in our society that means having thick skin,  letting insults roll of your back, not complaining about hardship or mistreatment and not crying in general. 

Now me, I reject the idea that these gender stereotypes have anything to do with manhood. But your perspective is that doing gender stereotypes IS what makes one a man. If that's what you think, and if you're a man....the above script is the part you'll need to play.

Sure, but that doesn't mean I can't stand up for myself.

[Lilllabettt]

3 hours ago, CuriositasEtFidem said:

Sure, but that doesn't mean I can't stand up for myself.

Ugh!!!!! This was said tongue in cheek but you went for it!

Not crying has nothing to do with manhood!  Crying doesn't make one any less of a man...

Just FYI, men, and I mean males who are socialized as men, suffer horribly because of the perpetuation of these gender stereotypes, eg that they are not allowed to cry.

You don't know what that's like because as a female you've always been allowed tears! 

Just ugh!!!! I'm sorry but I can't!!! Ugh!!!!

[little2add]

[Peace]

8 hours ago, Lilllabettt said:

Ugh!!!!! This was said tongue in cheek but you went for it!

Not crying has nothing to do with manhood!  Crying doesn't make one any less of a man...

Just FYI, men, and I mean males who are socialized as men, suffer horribly because of the perpetuation of these gender stereotypes, eg that they are not allowed to cry.

You don't know what that's like because as a female you've always been allowed tears! 

Just ugh!!!! I'm sorry but I can't!!! Ugh!!!!

This is some feminist BS if I have ever heard it. If you want to spend half your day sobbing on a sofa while you and your girlfriend eat a vat of mint-chocolate-chip ice cream go for it. Men, and society at large, are not harmed by the way that men handle our emotions. We handle our emotions in a way that is optimal for men, and society at large. We don't emote like women therefore we are defective and harming ourselves. If only we could be more like women! What a feminist trope that must be blindly accepted in this ridiculous culture that ya'll want form.

You want to see some men cry:

There you go. We are all so much better now.

Edited February 23, 2021 by Peace

[Lilllabettt]

3 hours ago, Peace said:

This is some feminist BS if I have ever heard it. If you want to spend half your day sobbing on a sofa while you and your girlfriend eat a vat of mint-chocolate-chip ice cream go for it. Men, and society at large, are not harmed by the way that men handle our emotions. We handle our emotions in a way that is optimal for men, and society at large. We don't emote like women therefore we are defective and harming ourselves. If only we could be more like women! What a feminist trope that must be blindly accepted in this ridiculous culture that ya'll want form.

You want to see some men cry:

There you go. We are all so much better now.

Like a year ago, I caught something nasty. I thought it was flu. I went to an urgent care for a test. 

It was pretty much deserted, except for a father and his, maybe 5 or 6 year old son. Warmed my heart to see them together as the father was patiently teaching his son how to read one of the books in the waiting room. The boy was the sick one between them, he looked very tired but content, leaning his head on his father's shoulder.

We were called back about the same time and put in adjacent "rooms" with a curtain wall between them. 

I was seen first. A nurse came and stuck a long swab up my nose and twisted, counting down from ten as she did so. It hurt and burned. My eyes watered and at the end, as she removed the swab, I involuntarily said "ow." She said, "I'm sorry, I know it hurts."

A few minutes later it was the little boy's turn. They suspected flu, and because he had asthma he was already quite sick. (I heard all this discussed through the curtain.)  The nurse did the test and left, and as she did I heard the softest, slightest sniffles emit from my neighbor's side. The boy was shedding a quiet tear or two because he'd been hurt by this painful test.

His father's voice was much louder through the curtain. He asked his son "are you a girl? You have got to toughen up. Stop acting like a sissy.  Crying and carrying on. Stop it."

The sniffling stopped. The nurse came back with my test results and a prescription for Tamiflu. As I left I glanced back and saw behind the other side of the curtain, where this child was crumpled up in his chair like a wounded animal.

I wanted so badly to tell that father that he was working at cross purposes with himself. That this very thing is what turns boys trans or gay - when powerful and beloved authority figures plant a false ideal of masculinity in a boy's head and simultaneously plant the seeds of fear and doubt that they cannot measure up to it; that they cannot become a "real" man. 

Maybe that doubt will mean the boy is only comfortable having friends who are girls. With them he may learn to appreciate and enjoy "girl" play, earning him rebuke from his male peers, further alienating him from masculinity.  Eventually he may also follow the vast majority of girls in deciding that men are of interest sexually.  He may think of this as a sexual orientation and report "feeling different" from a young age. Or he may decide his alienation from masculinity is a sign that he is trans. He may report having "always" felt more comfortable "acting like a girl."

Another response might be, determination to overcome  "weakness" (eg shedding a tear because of a painful test). This can manifest as strong rejection of anything considered in the least bit feminine (childcare, religion) and pursuit of hyper masculine occupations and activities (navy seals, boxing, etc) despite a lack of talent and actual enjoyment.  

A third response might be, emotional deadening, in which the boy turns off the deep reflective thinking which triggers emotional responses. This is the most common of the three responses I'm describing.  The boy grows up to be a man who can only deeply feel and express the emotion of anger. Other emotional responses even perfectly normal ones,  are dulled. Many report being unable to feel excitement. It's anhedonia and imo the main reason suicide rates for men outpace women.