MEN!

[Fides_et_Ratio]

whoa, I never said being single meant a person wasn't following God's Will. I just was asking how INTENDING to remain single for the WHOLE of one's life fulfill a Chrisitan vocation?

I know a guy who just got married and he's 38. my friend getting married next month is 28 (almost 29). It just seems that these days it takes a bit longer for marriage in some cases.

also, what about the religious life? how do we know single people are merely rejecting God's call to them in the religious life?

I wasn't being judgmental. not once did I consign anyone to Hell.

[Catholictothecore]

I think all he was saying was single life is not one of the traditional vocations in the Church. It is a relatively new way fo life

[Fides_et_Ratio]

[quote name='Catholictothecore' date='May 20 2005, 03:03 PM'] I think all he was saying was single life is not one of the traditional vocations in the Church. It is a relatively new way fo life [/quote]
Well, Dr. Asci is not the pope, but he very clearly and distinctly stated that there "is no such thing as a vocation to the single life".

I'm not trying to be hurtful or condemning, but my question up above was an honest one. Apart from religious life, what does "singleness" (in adulthood, beyond marrying age) fulfill in Christian life? If God calls us to community, how is this fulfilled to a FULL extent by being "single"... it seems to be antithetical. Religious live in community and take vows/priests are ordained and have a particular grace, etc. that goes along with that. What comes from "singleness"?

[Socrates]

[quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' date='May 20 2005, 02:58 PM'] whoa, I never said being single meant a person wasn't following God's Will. I just was asking how INTENDING to remain single for the WHOLE of one's life fulfill a Chrisitan vocation?

I know a guy who just got married and he's 38.  my friend getting married next month is 28 (almost 29). It just seems that these days it takes a bit longer for marriage in some cases.

also, what about the religious life? how do we know single people are merely rejecting God's call to them in the religious life?

I wasn't being judgmental. not once did I consign anyone to Hell. [/quote]
My post wansn't directly aimed at you. (Norseman seemed even more set against the idea of a "single vocation.')

Some people are doing good in their particular station in life, which would be difficult to do in a religious order. There are many roles in life, and I don't think we can narrowly say what is or isn't the will of God for someone. God can call individuals to many different things.

As long as he is not living a life contrary to God's laws, I don't think we can say any person is not "following his vocation" or is "rejecting God's will for his life."

Edited May 20, 2005 by Socrates

[Fides_et_Ratio]

But... just because I still don't understand...

how would remaining single (intentionally) for the whole of one's life completely fulfill a Christian vocation? What do single people do that married or religious people cannot do?

how does remaining single fulfill "community"? it's to a radically lesser extent than marriage (yet, it's not "for the kingdom of God" as religious do) and they take no vows, no specific sacrament, etc. to that particular state.

It just seems to me that singleness is a temporary state, not a permanent state of life.

[Catholictothecore]

I think what it means is someone whose going on God's time. I've read about ordinations and marriages that have happened well beyond youth.

[Norseman82]

Socrates, my apologies if any of my posts offended you, my point is not to bash single people who are single for the reasons you stated in your next to last post, but I am directing my remarks at those who do reject marriage and try to criticize those who seek it. This is where I'm coming from: in my own life, it seems that when I express a desire to establish a family (remember, I have none), I get people [i]criticizing me for desiring a family in the first place![/i] And they use the standardized knee-jerk phrases to justify it and to try to shut me up, like how it's God's will for my life (as if they are authorized to speak for God), how it's okay to be single and now how it's an acceptable vocation and that I should concentrate on being a happy single person. When people try to force that agenda on others, they may think they are helping, but they are in fact hurting more than helping. I do not intend to falsely accuse anyone on this site, but I do wish to show how the "single vocation" talk only helps to enable those who hurt others by criticizing desires for a family.

But I do thank you for the following statement:

[quote]As long as he is not living a life contrary to God's laws, I don't think we can say any person is not "following his vocation" or is "rejecting God's will for his life." [/quote]

That sums up the whole "God's will" issue for those who have not received a direct revelation from Him to do otherwise.

But I do maintain that it would be easier on everyone if those eligible to marry would not close the door on marriage completely. It might help increase the chances of finding an interested person of the opposite gender.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' date='May 20 2005, 03:19 PM'] But... just because I still don't understand...

how would remaining single (intentionally) for the whole of one's life completely fulfill a Christian vocation? What do single people do that married or religious people cannot do?

how does remaining single fulfill "community"? it's to a radically lesser extent than marriage (yet, it's not "for the kingdom of God" as religious do) and they take no vows, no specific sacrament, etc. to that particular state.

It just seems to me that singleness is a temporary state, not a permanent state of life. [/quote]
I don't think we can ever claim to totally know the will of God.

I have some friends who are in their 30's and 40s who are unmarried, and who throught their jobs are able to do good for other people. Some work for pro-life organizations. One is quite active with the church (teaching CCD and such). There are many ways one can do good in the community besides being married or being a priest or nun. To say otherwise seems narrow thinking.

And are you implying that if one is not married/ordained, etc. at the end of his life, he has rejected or missed God's call for his life?
Obviously if one dies young and unmarried, (say at 20) this statement is absurd.
But what if someone dies unmarried (or ordained, etc.) at 40?
At 50? At 60? At what age can we say that one has "rejected his vocation"? Where do you draw the line?

See how this kind of thinking becomes problematic?

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' date='May 20 2005, 03:19 PM'] It just seems to me that singleness is a temporary state, not a permanent state of life. [/quote]
That's [i]exactly[/i] how I view it.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

socrates..

the key word was "intentionally" remaining single.

married and religious can work in pro-life organizations and teach CDD, etc.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Norseman82' date='May 20 2005, 03:37 PM'] Socrates, my apologies if any of my posts offended you, my point is not to bash single people who are single for the reasons you stated in your next to last post, but I am directing my remarks at those who do reject marriage and try to criticize those who seek it. This is where I'm coming from: in my own life, it seems that when I express a desire to establish a family (remember, I have none), I get people [i]criticizing me for desiring a family in the first place![/i] And they use the standardized knee-jerk phrases to justify it and to try to shut me up, like how it's God's will for my life (as if they are authorized to speak for God), how it's okay to be single and now how it's an acceptable vocation and that I should concentrate on being a happy single person. When people try to force that agenda on others, they may think they are helping, but they are in fact hurting more than helping. I do not intend to falsely accuse anyone on this site, but I do wish to show how the "single vocation" talk only helps to enable those who hurt others by criticizing desires for a family.

But I do thank you for the following statement:



That sums up the whole "God's will" issue for those who have not received a direct revelation from Him to do otherwise.

But I do maintain that it would be easier on everyone if those eligible to marry would not close the door on marriage completely. It might help increase the chances of finding an interested person of the opposite gender. [/quote]
Sorry, I wasn't really offended. I see where you're coming from. i just get kind of frustrated with the general attitude that those of us who are single are somehow "not doing God's will."

It goes both ways. People have suggested that my lack of luck with the ladies means a religious vocation, and some are kind of generally critical of people being single.
Being single smells of elderberries and can get frustrating. Heck, I'd like a woman, and I've definitely not closed myself to that option.

However, I think constantly being unhappy about single is a bad attitude. I think that's what people are saying.

I don't think people should be judged for either wanting marriage, or not wanting marriage (unless it's a hedonistic I-don't-want-to-get-married-so-I-can-stay-single-and-party-with-the-babes-all-my-life sort of mentality.)

[Socrates]

[quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' date='May 20 2005, 03:42 PM'] socrates..

the key word was "intentionally" remaining single.

married and religious can work in pro-life organizations and teach CDD, etc. [/quote]
They might not be able to devote as much to their work.

Anyway, most singles do not "set out" to remain single.
How does one know that he has "rejected" his vocation?

[Fides_et_Ratio]

[quote name='Socrates' date='May 20 2005, 03:51 PM'] They might not be able to devote as much to their work.

Anyway, most singles do not "set out" to remain single.
How does one know that he has "rejected" his vocation? [/quote]
I don't know... religious seem pretty devoted to whatever they do. How does a single person teach CCD better than a religious or married person?

I know most do not set out to remain single, but sometimes it seems like people get to a point where they say, "I don't think I'm going to get married" and they claim that they are "called" to the single life (as a permanent state). I don't see how that fits in with the overall Christian vocation to love/become holy... by remaining "single" a person is "rejecting" the sacrament of marriage or holy orders (or the vows that nuns take...). There are "consecrated virgins", but then they taking vows and are thus "religious" (I'm not real sure how consecrated virginity works..). But remaining single for the whole of one's life (and INTENDING to remain as such) seems to reject an opportunity for further grace, and seems to reject an aspect of community.

being single isn't "bad".. I just don't see how it can be considered a permanent state of life for a person.

(fyi, I am single, do not think I'm called to the religious life.. but I don't intend to remain single forever, if I find a upstanding Catholic male, then hopefully he'll propose one day in the future.. but singleness is definitely a temporary state of life)

[Socrates]

[quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' date='May 20 2005, 03:59 PM'] I don't know... religious seem pretty devoted to whatever they do. How does a single person teach CCD better than a religious or married person?

I know most do not set out to remain single, but sometimes it seems like people get to a point where they say, "I don't think I'm going to get married" and they claim that they are "called" to the single life (as a permanent state). I don't see how that fits in with the overall Christian vocation to love/become holy... by remaining "single" a person is "rejecting" the sacrament of marriage or holy orders (or the vows that nuns take...). There are "consecrated virgins", but then they taking vows and are thus "religious" (I'm not real sure how consecrated virginity works..). But remaining single for the whole of one's life (and INTENDING to remain as such) seems to reject an opportunity for further grace, and seems to reject an aspect of community.

being single isn't "bad".. I just don't see how it can be considered a permanent state of life for a person.

(fyi, I am single, do not think I'm called to the religious life.. but I don't intend to remain single forever, if I find a upstanding Catholic male, then hopefully he'll propose one day in the future.. but singleness is definitely a temporary state of life) [/quote]
And what if someone, through no fault of his own, dies "single" in middle or old age? Would you say he has "rejected his vocation?"

At what point must one "choose" a vocation (ie. "I'm too old to get married - better get to the seminary)?

Is the "intention not to stay single" the important thing?

How much effort must one put into finding a spouse? If he isn't married, does this
mean he "hasn't tried hard enough"?

Is one who dies single after much difficult and unsuccessful struggling to find a spouse necessarily more virtuous than one who dies "happily single"?

And what about those who rush into bad marriages to avoid "staying single"?


See the problems?

[missionarybelle]

good guys are rare! but when you find one you appreciate them even more! but they all seem to old for me right now which is okay since I'm not ready to date or anything.