Alycin Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 [quote name='XIX' post='1559531' date='Jun 5 2008, 11:42 AM'][url="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html"]http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congrega...-unions_en.html[/url] "In those situations where homosexual unions have been legally recognized or have been given the legal status and rights belonging to marriage, clear and emphatic opposition is a duty. One must refrain from any kind of formal cooperation in the enactment or application of such gravely unjust laws and, as far as possible, from material cooperation on the level of their application. In this area, everyone can exercise the right to conscientious objection."[/quote] Will you break this down to simpler terms for me please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishSalesian Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 [quote name='Alycin' post='1559599' date='Jun 5 2008, 01:06 PM']Will you break this down to simpler terms for me please?[/quote] My interpretation of it is this: If the State has legalized the union of a homosexual couple it is then the duty of the individual to deny any form of help in the areas of securing adoption, or other marital rights. Not deny them medical coverage, but just certain rights that married (heterosexual) couples are entitled to. This is what I think that statement says. But I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 [quote name='CatherineM' post='1559584' date='Jun 5 2008, 10:00 AM']I used to have a lot of gay clients. I guess because I was willing to take clients with AIDS back in the '80's when no one else wanted to be in the same room with them. I would do wills, and powers of attorney that allowed them to have the same deathbed protections that legally married spouses do. As to tax issues, in the US when I was doing tax law, gay partners could claim their "house spouse" on their taxes so long as they contributed 51% or more to their upkeep. They couldn't file as married, but head of household gave them the exact same tax rate. I never did an adoption for a gay couple. I wasn't asked because at that time it wasn't allowed. I had a political science professor ask in class once when we were studying legalized slavery, what the white students in the class owed the black students in the class because our ancestors enslaved their ancestors. You can image the responses from apologies to reparations. In the end the professor said we were wrong. All one citizen owes another citizen is to obey the laws in place at the time we are living. That's what equal rights mean. We all have the right to be allowed to live in the US, to vote, buy property where we can afford to, move where we would like to, the right to pay taxes to support our society, and the right to go to jail if we violate the rules. We have the right to decide who gets our property when we die, who gets to be by our deathbed and make medical decisions for us when we aren't able. These are rights like voting that we have, but often do not take advantage of. We are allowed free association. If two individuals choose to live together, gay or straight, we shouldn't interfere with that. That doesn't make it a marriage. Just because we call it one doesn't make it so. We had a civil wedding for immigration and the government, and a church wedding for ourselves and God. Even if gay marriage becomes legal in all the US some day, like it is here in Canada, it isn't going to change the validity of our sacrament or water it down. To me it is like calling communion in a Protestant church the Eucharist doesn't make it so. They have the right to call it whatever they want to, but it doesn't change what it is. If gay people want to call their partnering a marriage, and the government wants to ratify that, it doesn't really change what it is, or isn't. The most important thing for us to do, is to speak the truth. We can't force anyone to listen to it, or hear our words, but we can always speak the truth. That doesn't impinge on anyone's rights.[/quote] i dub this the best and most thoughtful post in the whole thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prose Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 I am still curious to hear any responses to my previous post about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Your post rocked... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Prose-Your examples were exactly some of the problems this direction leads us to. Saying that we have to give gays marriage rights because they were born that way could be extended to pedophiles who were born that way wanting to marry 10 year olds. Saying it is their right because it is their religious belief, opens us to polygamous marriages, and I suppose even marriages between people and animals. The problem is that we have forgotten what marriage was supposed to be, a life time commitment to one person of the opposite sex for the production of children, and to give society a firm base. Once marriage became throw away, and divorce became quick and easy, it starts to erode all the rest of the definition of marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prose Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Thanks. I was starting to think it was invisible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisvilleFan Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 (edited) [quote name='Alycin' post='1559599' date='Jun 5 2008, 01:06 PM']Will you break this down to simpler terms for me please?[/quote] Catholics are obligated to oppose homosexual civil unions and must avoid cooperating with such laws, as much as they are able. Edited June 5, 2008 by LouisvilleFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 I've attended gay funerals, but refused invitations to gay weddings. If I was a justice of the peace up here, I wouldn't do a gay marriage. I wouldn't arrange for a gay couple to adopt a child, but I would be willing to babysit the child. This is how I view not cooperating with gay marriage without being discriminatory within my moral beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 I also think one of the best ways we can fight against gay marriage is to have proper weddings, and strong, lasting, sacramental marriages. Set an example of what is right, and people will be less confused when they see what is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XIX Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 [quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1559931' date='Jun 5 2008, 05:12 PM']Catholics are obligated to oppose homosexual civil unions and must avoid cooperating with such laws, as much as they are able.[/quote] and I completely agree with Catherine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rckllnknny Posted June 5, 2008 Author Share Posted June 5, 2008 unless they believe it is wrong. then they are allowed free will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rckllnknny Posted June 5, 2008 Author Share Posted June 5, 2008 and the right to believe in whatvr they feel is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autumn Dusk Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 [quote name='rckllnknny' post='1560221' date='Jun 5 2008, 08:36 PM']unless they believe it is wrong. then they are allowed free will.[/quote] you can "feel" whatever you want. As long as you don't act on it or misrepresent the church with your actions or words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rckllnknny Posted June 5, 2008 Author Share Posted June 5, 2008 better stop then. Gods watching you too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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