OraProMe Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 (edited) Beauty is a fluid concept and subjective. You can't project this basic, human understanding you have onto God. It just doesn't work because He can't be understood in human terms. Edited June 28, 2009 by OraProMe
Resurrexi Posted June 28, 2009 Author Posted June 28, 2009 (edited) I disagree with you then. I believe that beauty is objective. As we are made in the image of God, and like God, we have intellect and will, we can perceive that objective beauty. Edited June 28, 2009 by Resurrexi
OraProMe Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 (edited) Do you really want to say that beauty is objective? Like, don't just say it so you can disagree with me, Rex. Actually think about it. Because frankly I thought you had a little more intelligence then that. I don't know anyone that would argue that beauty, of any kind, is objective fact. Or that what we find impressive (incense, latin, whatever) would be pleasing to God. It's for our own sakes, not His. Edited June 28, 2009 by OraProMe
Resurrexi Posted June 28, 2009 Author Posted June 28, 2009 [quote name='OraProMe' post='1903535' date='Jun 28 2009, 09:59 AM']Do you really want to say that beauty is objective? Like, don't just say it so you can disagree with me, Rex. Actually think about it. Because frankly I thought you had a little more intelligence then that. I don't know anyone that would argue that beauty, of any kind, is objective fact.[/quote] There are plenty of smart people who believe that beauty is objective. Raphael, who has a theology degree, [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=89408&hl=beauty"]seems to think that beauty is objective[/url]. My Christian morality teacher also taught our class that beauty was objective last semester.
OraProMe Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 I read the post, I don't care if she has a theology degree, that was a weak argument. She used the example of the LOTR characters. Now just because something is held by the majority doesn't mean it's objective. Human concepts of beauty are always changing. Seem we're talking physical stuff here (incense, robes etc.) I'll use a physical example: women. Hawaiin culture holds overweight women in very high regard because it's considered a sign on royalty. Where as in the West we have models living off ciggarettes and coffee to get down to the lowest weight possible. We can even look to the present. If you had a mullet 25 years ago Rex you'd be hot stuff. If you had one now I doubt anyone would want to be seen with you in public. So, we have something that changed from culture to culture, age to age and person to person. It's not anything factual, it has all to do with human perception which varies between individuals. Yet you think it's objective? Rightio then.
VeniteAdoremus Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1903512' date='Jun 28 2009, 05:41 PM']I do think that Latin, beautiful vestments, and incense are very pleasing to God because all beautiful things glorify God, their maker.[/quote] All things glorify God, their maker, period. Undoubtedly God takes much pleasure in sea slugs being the best sea slugs they can be. Beauty is a human concept, and a matter of taste. Personally I think many fiddlebacks are... well... ghastly. They draw my attention away from the important stuff if I let them (I try not to). I think simple silk chasubles in a tasteful shade of the liturgical colour are the utmost in beauty. But that's me. The EF and the OF, when celebrated well*, are [i]equal[/i] in grace and glory. The only thing under our influence is how we receive that. *that disclaimer is getting tiresome.
OraProMe Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 (edited) poof GONE Edited June 28, 2009 by OraProMe
Resurrexi Posted June 28, 2009 Author Posted June 28, 2009 [quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1903550' date='Jun 28 2009, 10:13 AM']The EF and the OF, when celebrated well*, are [i]equal[/i] in grace and glory. The only thing under our influence is how we receive that. *that disclaimer is getting tiresome.[/quote] I strongly feel that the prayers of the EF themselves are superior to the prayers of the OF.
VeniteAdoremus Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 Here I am taking 20 minutes to formulate it well and Ora steals my arguments! I'm going back to revising for my quantum physics exam. He won't follow me there, at least.
MIKolbe Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 yeah.. this thread hasn't turned into a "which Mass is better thread" at all. Good job, Rexi!!! It is precisely this division-sowing that I find so prevalent among many our traditional brethen, that will keep the OF from truly becoming the very epitome of beauty its advocates profess. If what is above is the FRUIT of the EF, it may cause pause for many.
OraProMe Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 [quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1903553' date='Jun 28 2009, 10:16 AM']Here I am taking 20 minutes to formulate it well and Ora steals my arguments! I'm going back to revising for my quantum physics exam. He won't follow me there, at least. [/quote] Backup is always welcome! But I'll leave any science stuff to you. Enjoy you quantum physics -shudders-
VeniteAdoremus Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1903552' date='Jun 28 2009, 06:16 PM']I strongly feel that the prayers of the EF themselves are superior to the prayers of the OF.[/quote] Then it's best for you to go to the EF, because it will be more edifying to you. And it's best for people who get lost in the lengthy EF formulations to go to the OF. Lookies, everybody happy!
VeniteAdoremus Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 [quote name='MIkolbe' post='1903554' date='Jun 28 2009, 06:17 PM']yeah.. this thread hasn't turned into a "which Mass is better thread" at all. Good job, Rexi!!! It is precisely this division-sowing that I find so prevalent among many our traditional brethen, that will keep the OF from truly becoming the very epitome of beauty its advocates profess. If what is above is the FRUIT of the EF, it may cause pause for many.[/quote] What I find vaguely hilarious is that Res, Ora and I ALL prefer the EF.
Resurrexi Posted June 28, 2009 Author Posted June 28, 2009 [quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1903557' date='Jun 28 2009, 10:19 AM']Then it's best for you to go to the EF, because it will be more edifying to you. And it's best for people who get lost in the lengthy EF formulations to go to the OF. Lookies, everybody happy! [/quote] Soon many of the "lengthy formulations" present in the literal translations of the EF found in various hand-missals will be present in the approved English translation of the OF.
Resurrexi Posted June 28, 2009 Author Posted June 28, 2009 (edited) [quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1903558' date='Jun 28 2009, 10:20 AM']What I find vaguely hilarious is that Res, Ora and I ALL prefer the EF. [/quote] Wow... lol. Edited June 28, 2009 by Resurrexi
MIKolbe Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 [quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1903558' date='Jun 28 2009, 09:20 AM']What I find vaguely hilarious is that Res, Ora and I ALL prefer the EF. [/quote] traddies are WICKED funny!!!
OraProMe Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 One a rad-trad, one a future nun and one a happily gay man. What a strange mix we are.
VeniteAdoremus Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 [quote name='OraProMe' post='1903568' date='Jun 28 2009, 06:31 PM']One a rad-trad, one a future nun and one a happily gay man. What a strange mix we are.[/quote] We should totally form a superhero team. It cannot be avoided. (Now I hear Edna yelling "No scapulars!" and that makes me sad.)
Recommended Posts