KnightofChrist Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 (edited) [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1307481948' post='2250969'] But seriously, you guys are crazy for not liking LIFE TEEN. It gets kids to go to adoration. You may not agree with its methods but you can't deny that it's doing a good thing. There are other programs out there, and maybe they have better parts. But this one is good too. [/quote] I believe Life Teen in all honestly is a mixed bag. There are good ones and there are bad ones. Some are fruit some are poison. The good is good, but the good is mixed with the bad. That presents a problem for the whole of Life Teen. To use an example if there was a product on the open market say Pepsi Zero or whatever that was sometimes good and tasty but other times just as often also poison. Would we be so quick to eat or drink from that product? I wouldn't I'd probably avoid it respectfully. Anyway that's my thoughts on the actual topic of this thread. Also my personal experiences with two different Life Teen groups wasn't good. But that's all I have to say about that. Edited June 7, 2011 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 [quote name='MissScripture' timestamp='1307486395' post='2251005'] FYI: By Missy (in case anyone was confused, cuz it took me a second to figure out what he meant), he means me. Idk why he calls me that, since we have a Missy (MissyP89). [/quote] okay, thanks, i was a little confused. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudreyGrace Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1307486643' post='2251009'] I believe Life Teen in all honestly is a mixed bag. There are good ones and there are bad ones. Some are fruit some are poison.[u] The good is good, but the good is mixed with the bad. That presents a problem for the whole of Life Teen.[/u] To use an example if there was a product on the open market say Pepsi Zero or whatever that was sometimes good and tasty but other times just as often also poison. Would we be so quick to eat or drink from that product?[u] I wouldn't I'd probably avoid it respectfully. [/u] Anyway that's my thoughts on the actual topic of this thread. Also my personal experiences with two different Life Teen groups wasn't good. But that's all I have to say about that. [/quote] This argument can be used by someone as a reason for not being Catholic. The Church is good, there is a lot of good in it. But there are some spoilers, such as priestly scandals, Catholics who don't actually practice their faith and make a bad name for everyone else (kinda like Life Teen), and the Parishes and Churches that have practices that go against what the Church teaches. Certainly, the Church is ultimately good because it was founded by Jesus Christ. Nevertheless, the type of argument you used for Life Teen is kind of pointless, seeing as anyone can use that excuse for anything, and you seem to pick and choose which organizations you direct that attitude towards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 [quote name='AudreyGrace' timestamp='1307487246' post='2251027'] This argument can be used by someone as a reason for not being Catholic. The Church is good, there is a lot of good in it. But there are some spoilers, such as priestly scandals, Catholics who don't actually practice their faith and make a bad name for everyone else (kinda like Life Teen), and the Parishes and Churches that have practices that go against what the Church teaches. Certainly, the Church is ultimately good because it was founded by Jesus Christ. Nevertheless, the type of argument you used for Life Teen is kind of pointless, seeing as anyone can use that excuse for anything, and you seem to pick and choose which organizations you direct that attitude towards. [/quote] I respectfully disagree. Life Teen is not the Church. It's a tool used by Catholics to bring people into the Church. Sometimes its used to help the Church other times used against the Church. Christ promises the gates of Hell cannot and shall not prevail against the Church, we need the Church for salvation, Life Teen in all its goodness doesn't have this promise from Christ and is not needed for the salvation of souls. The Church is not, ever, a bad or poisoned fruit. Life Teen, however, is sometimes just that, poisoned fruit. I find it sad and disappointing that it's sometimes bad then sometimes good. Because the bad hurts the good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 [quote name='MissScripture' timestamp='1307486395' post='2251005'] FYI: By Missy (in case anyone was confused, cuz it took me a second to figure out what he meant), he means me. Idk why he calls me that, since we have a Missy (MissyP89). [/quote] Wow. My apologies. It's kinda been a long time since I was active on PM and I forgot who was who. MissScripture =/= MissyP89 ... got it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1307487651' post='2251030'] I respectfully disagree. Life Teen is not the Church. It's a tool used by Catholics to bring people into the Church. Sometimes its used to help the Church other times used against the Church.[i][b] Christ promises the gates of Hell cannot and shall not prevail against the Church[/b][/i], we need the Church for salvation, [i][b]Life Teen in all its goodness doesn't have this promise[/b][/i] from Christ and is not needed for the salvation of souls. The Church is not, ever, a bad or poisoned fruit. Life Teen, however, is sometimes just that, poisoned fruit. I find it sad and disappointing that it's sometimes bad then sometimes good. Because the bad hurts the good. [/quote] Edited June 8, 2011 by USAirwaysIHS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='faithcecelia' timestamp='1307473326' post='2250882'] While the first part of this story is being claimed, its no wonder the second is being believed. Psalm 150 - Praise Him with dance. [/quote] Fallacy. If found in scripture doesn't automatically make it appropriate to incorporate it into the mass. To my understanding, the apostles never danced praising Christ, especially at the Last Supper and at Calvary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='faithcecelia' timestamp='1307475374' post='2250896'] Hence I said NOT liturgical dance. But hey ho, if the spirit moves someone to dance like that then dance away. Roll on our first African Pope (and before anyone says, no I'm not wishing any harm to B16 ) [/quote] How are you sure it is the Holy Spirit moving you to dance? You are gravely mistaken, if you think the Pope b/c he is African will embrace this dancing in the Mass/Liturgy. I suggest you google Cardinal Arinze + Mass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='CephaDrigan' timestamp='1307476513' post='2250904'] It still depends on how you're dancing...it doesn't imply elaborate or showy dancing; it could be very subtle and reverent. [/quote] Dancing of any sort does not belong inside Mass. Nothing belongs inside the Mass that takes the focus away from the Altar. NOTHING!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='faithcecelia' timestamp='1307477150' post='2250918'] If thats how God leads anyone to worship, no man can surely say they know better and forbid it?? When God gets me going, I dance! Im actually very shy and not an obvious rebel (head and shoulders covered in church, etc) but so, so many times I just cannot stay still, [b]God makes me dance, its how he wants me to praise him, so I dance![/b] [/quote] Again, are you sure it is God moving? Have you talked to a priest about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1307481948' post='2250969'] But seriously, you guys are crazy for not liking LIFE TEEN. It gets kids to go to adoration. You may not agree with its methods but you can't deny that it's doing a good thing. There are other programs out there, and maybe they have better parts. But this one is good too. [/quote] For me, it is the LT mass I have issues with. The other parts of the program are more acceptable. Our parish evaluated bringing LT in and since I do youth ministry there as a volunteer, I was on the evaluation panel. My understanding is if you buy LT then LT becomes the youth ministry, and nothing else other than LT. I found that odd. A major problem I saw was this Core Team. It seemed to me they have control of the way LT is carried out with the Pastor not playing a key role. After talking to people involved in LT at other parishes in became clear to me that these Core Teams were designing the Mass. And that is frightening! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1307535824' post='2251212'] For me, it is the LT mass I have issues with. The other parts of the program are more acceptable. Our parish evaluated bringing LT in and since I do youth ministry there as a volunteer, I was on the evaluation panel. My understanding is if you buy LT then LT becomes the youth ministry, and nothing else other than LT. I found that odd. A major problem I saw was this Core Team. It seemed to me they have control of the way LT is carried out with the Pastor not playing a key role. After talking to people involved in LT at other parishes in became clear to me that these Core Teams were designing the Mass. And that is frightening! [/quote] Well, first, I'm not sure what you mean by "LT becomes the youth ministry and nothing else other than LT." You purchase a membership that entitles you to the resource guides and stuff that are sent out every couple of months, with the different LIFE Night planning guides within it, as well as other things that might assist you in your ministry. What you do beyond that is up to you--scheduling which of the LIFE Nights you want to do; when you're going to do them; how you are going to do them; which person will do what (it's more than just the YM, as you know). If you want to come up with your own LIFE Nights or incorporate other types of events into your calendar, there's no one stopping you. Second, the CORE Team is really nothing more than your volunteers. They have as much reponsibility--on a group and on an individual level-- as the YM decides to delegate to them. The way it worked within my parish was that we had somewhere between 12-15 CORE members that broken up into 3-4 teams of 4-5 people, with each team responsible for 1 night each month. There wasn't an involvement in the designing of the mass--I think the Council of Nicea kinda settled that issue 1500 years or so ago. Finally, the Pastor of the parish has as much involvement as he wants to have. Our Pastor was very supportive of LIFE TEEN, but didn't really have much of a presence beyond being an advocate behind the scenes. We did have a priest that was kind of our *official* priest. Actually, there were 2; Fr. Jeff, who was probably in his late 30s or so, very funny, very pastoral, and very inspirational--he was paralyzed from the waist down, and was on crutches. When he was moved to another parish to become a pastor, Fr. Mathew came in. He was and remains one of my spiritual idols. This little, tiny, Yoda-like Indian guy. Very pious; very meditative. He would always encourage us to "fall deeper in love with God," often chanting in Adoration "I love you Lord; I give my life to you; all that I am." The involvement of the clergy depends on them. As always, they're encouraged to participate in the nights, but most of the time they don't. Some of them have been up since 6 a.m. and, after doing 3-4 masses or whatever, the last thing they want to do is hang out with 50 or 60 rowdy teenagers until 8 or 9 at night. I hope this answers some of your questions. It seems like there's a lot of shoddy programs out there, so I guess it's not fair to expect people to universalize their experiences, or mine for that matter. I supposes there's a difference between LIFE TEEN (the inter-national youth ministry program) and Life Teen (the local, parish-level program). One is an ideal (sorta), whereas the other is more muddied due to the dispersal of membership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1307538644' post='2251221'] It seems like there's a lot of shoddy programs out there, so I guess it's not fair to expect people to universalize their experiences, or mine for that matter. I supposes there's a difference between LIFE TEEN (the inter-national youth ministry program) and Life Teen (the local, parish-level program). One is an ideal (sorta), whereas the other is more muddied due to the dispersal of membership. [/quote] I guess that is my point. The vision/mission of the youth ministry at a parish is required to come from its local Bishop. And it needs to be a clear, concrete vision/mission and not open to deviations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faithcecelia Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1307534918' post='2251208'] Again, are you sure it is God moving? Have you talked to a priest about this? [/quote] I have actually, I have been very blessed to know many good priests and to have spent a lot of time in their company discussing the various ways God works in my life and others. I've actually seen a number of priests dance too Yes, I am sure its God, I am certain of that. God fills me with so much joy and happiness, and my dance (which is not leaping round the place!) is an expression of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faithcecelia Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1307533092' post='2251202'] Fallacy. If found in scripture doesn't automatically make it appropriate to incorporate it into the mass. To my understanding, the apostles never danced praising Christ, especially at the Last Supper and at Calvary. [/quote] Nor did they have the pomp and ceremony the Church has today and even more so with the medieval Mass. The last supper was a Passover meal, a meal of joy and celebration, a meal of much drink and of true fellowship friend with friend. Most of the apostles didn't even go to Calvary. I have no problem at all with those who like a solemn Mass, and no problem at all with those who like to use the medieval form, thats each person's own choice and there are enough Masses to allow each to do as they choose in most places. But no one has any right to tell me I shouldn't worship the way God inspires me to either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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