Norseman82 Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1309801873' post='2263054'] ahh but anyone with a bit of wiring experience can jury rig something up. going north american to euro, etc [/quote] That doesn't change the basic nature of the plug and socket, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrestia Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1309763031' post='2262907'] Thanks for asking your friends, I am surprised by their second answer, not the first one as I am presuming you are a pretty decent person. Sorry if my next statement annoys you or misrepresents you, I am not doing this intentionally but please put me in my place if I have done so. I assume your friends aren't aware that the following are teachings of the Catholic church and I assume that you agree with these: Homosexual sex is a sin Homosexual attraction is a disorder Homosexual sex is against nature Homosexuals should either abstain from sex or become heterosexuals Homosexuals should pray for forgiveness regarding their homosexual sex acts Homosexuals should not be able to marry each other Homosexuals should not be able to adopt children Homosexuals should not be school teachers Hotel owners should have the right to turn away homosexual customers Homosexuals should not be given a burial service by the church. [/quote] That's just ridiculous. My friends don't fit in your box so you assume they are morons? Here's my assumption: you don't want to admit that you are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 [quote name='tgoldson' timestamp='1309804029' post='2263067'] That's just ridiculous. My friends don't fit in your box so you assume they are morons? Here's my assumption: you don't want to admit that you are wrong. [/quote] So your friends are happy that the Church is teaching people by the hundreds of millions that their sexual activities are a sin, agaist nature and disordered? And that they should not have the right to be married to the person they love or adopt children if they so please and that your church should not bury them even if they are Catholic? I am really struggling with this concept, why would they be happy about this? I presume you would vote to make these things against the law if given the chance, dispite your love for your friends. Do you think they would appreciate you participating in taking away choice from them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Most of my gay clients didn't want to be legally married. Some said that marriage doesn't work for straight people too well, so why would they want to. I think some thought that would mean coming out, and they were heavily in the closet. It was a different time though. Being gay in the 80's meant people were afraid you were contagious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrestia Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1309805236' post='2263083'] So your friends are happy that the Church is teaching people by the hundreds of millions that their sexual activities are a sin, agaist nature and disordered? And that they should not have the right to be married to the person they love or adopt children if they so please and that your church should not bury them even if they are Catholic? I am really struggling with this concept, why would they be happy about this? I presume you would vote to make these things against the law if given the chance, dispite your love for your friends. Do you think they would appreciate you participating in taking away choice from them? [/quote] I'm tired of having words put in my mouth. My friends aren't what you think, and they don't want me wasting any more energy or emotion on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 [quote name='tgoldson' timestamp='1309813981' post='2263111'] I'm tired of having words put in my mouth. My friends aren't what you think, and they don't want me wasting any more energy or emotion on this. [/quote] Sorry if I am putting words in your mouth, I stated that I presume, leaving room for the possibility that I am wrong. If you are for separation of State and Church then that could easily mean that you are not for laws to support Catholic rules onto the whole of society. I think your friends are gay, because that is what you told me they were. I have no other presumptions with regards to who they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1309810260' post='2263104'] Most of my gay clients didn't want to be legally married. [/quote] Are you saying that they are happy that society takes the choice away from them rather than letting them decide their future with regards to marrage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1309791757' post='2262974'] I see a big difference between turning away a hotel guest, and a bed and breakfast guest. One is a public facility, and the other is often someone's home. [/quote] If someone chooses to provide a service and make it available to the public then the law sees it as an obligation to make this service available regardless of certain demographics. It seems you are concerned about strangers committing sin in your house. Is the sin of gay sex worse than the sin of using contraceptives or having sex out of wedlock or worshipping a "false" god or not believing in god? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1309810260' post='2263104'] Most of my gay clients didn't want to be legally married. Some said that marriage doesn't work for straight people too well, so why would they want to. I think some thought that would mean coming out, and they were heavily in the closet. It was a different time though. Being gay in the 80's meant people were afraid you were contagious. [/quote] I've heard you reference your gay clients numerous times whenever discussing anything about homosexuality. Sometimes your comments are insightful and illuminating; sometimes they are just plain silly. I imagine that your clients would like the option to do anything that you, me and most other people can do. I imagine that they'd like to be able to say "No thanks" to marriage, adoption, etc. Even if they don't want it, I imagine that they wouldn't press THEIR opinion of what THEY do or don't want on other gay couples who might feel differently on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1309880302' post='2263263'] I've heard you reference your gay clients numerous times whenever discussing anything about homosexuality. Sometimes your comments are insightful and illuminating; sometimes they are just plain silly. I imagine that your clients would like the option to do anything that you, me and most other people can do. I imagine that they'd like to be able to say "No thanks" to marriage, adoption, etc. Even if they don't want it, I imagine that they wouldn't press THEIR opinion of what THEY do or don't want on other gay couples who might feel differently on the subject. [/quote] As I have said, this was over 20 years ago, in a very red neck environment. I think some were concerned that pushing for marriage rights might cause a potentially violent backlash. The women were mostly older, and doing their estate planning. They had lived their entire lives in the closet. My male clients were mostly young and dying of AIDS. They were also trying to stay hidden. I have no idea what they might say today. Most are dead. I do suspect that the advocacy skills the gay community developed during the worst of the AIDS scare years, have been brought to bear in this gay marriage push. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1309887313' post='2263279'] As I have said, this was over 20 years ago, in a very red neck environment. I think some were concerned that pushing for marriage rights might cause a potentially violent backlash. The women were mostly older, and doing their estate planning. They had lived their entire lives in the closet. My male clients were mostly young and dying of AIDS. They were also trying to stay hidden. I have no idea what they might say today. Most are dead. I do suspect that the advocacy skills the gay community developed during the worst of the AIDS scare years, have been brought to bear in this gay marriage push. [/quote] I understand what you're saying. The issues facing the gay community have evolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1309816516' post='2263122'] It seems you are concerned about strangers committing sin in your house. Is the sin of gay sex worse than the sin of using contraceptives or having sex out of wedlock or worshipping a "false" god or not believing in god? [/quote] Yes. In our religion, there is in fact a hierarchy of sins, unlike in others (e.g., Baptists/Calvinists tend to believe that all sins are of equal gravity). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 (edited) [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1309904547' post='2263362'] Yes. In our religion, there is in fact a hierarchy of sins, unlike in others (e.g., Baptists/Calvinists tend to believe that all sins are of equal gravity). [/quote] Let me ask you this: Is gay sex any more or less of a sin than premarital sex between a man and a woman? Edited July 5, 2011 by kujo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cappie Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1309906631' post='2263376'] Let me ask you this: Is gay sex any more or less of a sin than premarital sex between a man and a woman? [/quote] All non-marital sexual acts are intrinsically evil and always gravely immoral. All non-unitive sexual acts are intrinsically evil and always gravely immoral. All non-procreative sexual acts are intrinsically evil and always gravely immoral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 [quote name='cappie' timestamp='1309908161' post='2263382'] All non-marital sexual acts are intrinsically evil and always gravely immoral. All non-unitive sexual acts are intrinsically evil and always gravely immoral. All non-procreative sexual acts are intrinsically evil and always gravely immoral. [/quote] So if you are going to turn away homosexuals then would you be obliged to turn away all these other people too? If these sins were being committed in your house, would god make you accountable in some way? I assume that it is not a sin for a person to be homosexual but the sex act is the sin, so would you need to assess whether these people are actually going to have sex before deciding to turn them away? I think most of the sex non Christians have is not with the intent to make babies, so probably most of this sex is sinful in the Catholic definition. A lot of non Christians' marriage is not even accepted as a marriage by the Catholic Church (I think) as it was secular with no involvement of religious sanctioning or practices. So even secular married people having sex with intent to make babies might be deemed as sinful to the Catholic church and presumably to god. Oral sex is also a very common practice, i am assuming Catholics see this as a sin as well. You really would need to do much interrogation of potential customers to find out exactly what they are going to get up to during their stay. With regards to having a Muslim staying in your house, waking up at 5am and praying to Allah, would not this be a grave sin too. It is against one of the ten commandments. So there is much room for sinful activity and much room for your own eternal future to be impacted if god holds you accountable. It seems to me to be much safer not to get into the Bed and Breakfast business. If you are not held accountable then why can't you leave the judgment to god? You simply hire the room for a price, what a person does in the room in their privacy is between them and god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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